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Author Topic: Why Obama will lose in the fall  (Read 83555 times)

Miss P

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #80 on: June 07, 2008, 01:38:09 AM »
My you are a spunky one, Martin.

I've refrained from this discussion for the sake of my sanity.  I think everyone knows that I think Clinton race-baited throughout the campaign and that both Clinton and Obama supporters have engaged in some really vicious racist and sexist rhetoric, as well as general meanspiritedness, toward each other and the other candidate.  I'll leave it at that.

democrats are always whining and complaining about something aren't they? always, always, always b!tching.  incredible.  at the end of the day, no one likes a bitter complainer.  not a party of unified vision but one of shared animosity.  what cold porridge.

Get a grip.  I wasn't speaking on behalf of the party or any candidate, nor was I spontaneously offering a personal gripe. I was responding to a specific discussion about racism and sexism among the supporters of the two campaigns.  Your comment is especially rich from the person who started a thread trying to get people riled up about the supposedly widespread anti-African-American racism of Asian Americans and Latinos.

As far as I can tell, Obama and Clinton share a vision: a better country that doesn't continue to wage needless wars and that provides for its citizens' immediate basic needs and long-term well-being.  Why don't you tell us about McCain's vision? 

::)

Ditto.  And likewise about the snark.
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Martin Prince, Jr.

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #81 on: June 07, 2008, 09:55:15 AM »
Interesting how the racism Latinos supposedly feel towards black Americans isn't affecting their support of Barack Obama. From an LA Times poll: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-latinos6-2008jun06,0,5793717.story

Quote
A new Gallup Poll summary of surveys taken in May shows Obama winning 62% of Latino registered voters nationwide, compared with just 29% for McCain. Others have found a wide gap as well. The pro-Democratic group Democracy Corps compiled surveys from March through May that showed Obama with a 19-point lead among Latinos. And a Times poll published last month showed Obama leading McCain among California Latinos by 14 points.

Republicans say McCain's numbers among Latinos at the moment are disappointing -- far below the goals set by a campaign that has long believed McCain could challenge the traditional Democratic dominance of the Latino electorate.

The numbers suggest that McCain's image has suffered after a competitive GOP primary in which he renounced some of the moderate views on immigration popular among many Latinos. For example, McCain, who was a chief sponsor of legislation creating a path to citizenship for most of the nation's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants, now says he believes the government must focus first on securing the U.S.-Mexico border before dealing with illegal workers.

Weird how Latinos are letting actual issues get in the way of their irrational hatred of blacks. I mean, going by the OP's original formulation, none of these ethnic groups are rational actors with regard to who they support for Prez, and yet the data just doesn't back it up, I don't understand!!!!
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vercingetorix

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #82 on: June 07, 2008, 10:00:24 AM »
Miss P said:
"Get a grip.  I wasn't speaking on behalf of the party or any candidate, nor was I spontaneously offering a personal gripe. I was responding to a specific discussion about racism and sexism among the supporters of the two campaigns.  Your comment is especially rich from the person who started a thread trying to get people riled up about the supposedly widespread anti-African-American racism of Asian Americans and Latinos.

As far as I can tell, Obama and Clinton share a vision: a better country that doesn't continue to wage needless wars and that provides for its citizens' immediate basic needs and long-term well-being.  Why don't you tell us about McCain's vision?"


you need to calm down when you discuss.  i have never claimed to be a McCain supporter.  i do think that the racism in Latino and Asian circles, particularly against blacks, is quite pronounced.  i have offered a couple of articles supporting this.  it would be quite simple to find others.  you could too.   your comments lead me to believe that you don't spend much time with either people of Asian descent or Latinos as these biases form a part of their everyday conversations.  working with migrant farmers during a stint with Americorps about 10 years ago, i was stunned by the prevalence of it.  i have also traveled quite extensively in Asia (where people don't much like whites either mind you, especially in places like India) and Latin America.  so there is both anecdotal and independently backed information for you.

as for the disasterous economic policies Obama wants to put in place, i think i will forgo a discussion with you since most people on these boards are young students, either in or directly out of undergrad who don't know the first thing about economics and the realities of the day to day.  I would mention that my parents fled Canada because socialized medicine is simply ruinous.  if you want to make something really expensive, make it free.  i would add that increasing taxes on capital gains, increasing corporate taxation rates (we lag behind only Japan on this count), and increasing the FICA cap are not ways to get the economy out of a stall.

oh, particularly unavailing here are arguments like "well look at what Bushy did to the economy..." that has nothing to do with Obama.  it also assumes i give a toss about Bush, which, by the by, i don't.

Saxby Clemens II

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #83 on: June 07, 2008, 11:56:17 AM »
How lovely your parents were able to flee Canada and its socialized medicine. 

Here in America, they'd have probably died before they had the chance. 
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Miss P

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #84 on: June 07, 2008, 12:29:52 PM »
you need to calm down when you discuss. 

Among your criticisms, this alone is apt.* :)  But how about I just revert back to not interacting with you? 

*Not that I think I am particularly hostile, and I'm certainly less hostile than you and others in this thread.
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

vercingetorix

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #85 on: June 07, 2008, 12:38:10 PM »
you need to calm down when you discuss.

Among your criticisms, this alone is apt.* :)  But how about I just revert back to not interacting with you? 

*Not that I think I am particularly hostile, and I'm certainly less hostile than you and others in this thread.

Dear Miss P:
If you think mine is a hostile tone, yours will be a difficult and sad little life.  as for my other points, i fail to see how not addressing them makes them any more or less apt. good luck.

Miss P

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #86 on: June 07, 2008, 12:50:08 PM »
you need to calm down when you discuss.

Among your criticisms, this alone is apt.* :)  But how about I just revert back to not interacting with you? 

*Not that I think I am particularly hostile, and I'm certainly less hostile than you and others in this thread.

Dear Miss P:
If you think mine is a hostile tone, yours will be a difficult and sad little life.  as for my other points, i fail to see how not addressing them makes them any more or less apt. good luck.

Yes, that's the kind of positive and constructive spirit your other comments seemed to express.

I wasn't talking about your "points," on which we disagree, but which I am not particularly interested in discussing here.  I was referring to your criticisms of me, chiefly: (1) that I don't interact frequently with Asian Americans and Latinos, and (2) that I am young, just out of undergrad, and don't know anything about economics, economic policy, and the realities of day-to-day life.  But I don't really see the point in cataloguing my associations and credentials for you.  You're free to believe what you want; I just wanted to give you the heads-up that you're a little off-base.

ETA: And I wasn't suggesting that you supported McCain.  You raised a question about whether the Democrats have any shared vision.  I named one and asked you whether McCain had one.  It's not much use to evaluate the coherence of one vision or the unity of one party without comparison to the viable alternatives. 
That's cool how you referenced a case.

Quote from: archival
I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #87 on: June 07, 2008, 01:31:52 PM »
My you are a spunky one, Martin.

I've refrained from this discussion for the sake of my sanity.  I think everyone knows that I think Clinton race-baited throughout the campaign and that both Clinton and Obama supporters have engaged in some really vicious racist and sexist rhetoric, as well as general meanspiritedness, toward each other and the other candidate.  I'll leave it at that.

democrats are always whining and complaining about something aren't they? always, always, always b!tching.  incredible.  at the end of the day, no one likes a bitter complainer.  not a party of unified vision but one of shared animosity.  what cold porridge.


seconded...lets get some independents elected on the local stage...mayors, for example.
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Julie Fern

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #88 on: June 07, 2008, 01:32:17 PM »
My you are a spunky one, Martin.

I've refrained from this discussion for the sake of my sanity. I think everyone knows that I think Clinton race-baited throughout the campaign and that both Clinton and Obama supporters have engaged in some really vicious racist and sexist rhetoric, as well as general meanspiritedness, toward each other and the other candidate. I'll leave it at that.

democrats are always whining and complaining about something aren't they? always, always, always b!tching. incredible. at the end of the day, no one likes a bitter complainer. not a party of unified vision but one of shared animosity. what cold porridge.

whatever you say, doof.  ever count whiny-ass titty babies in gop?

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #89 on: June 07, 2008, 01:32:49 PM »
Oh, shut up  ::)

I'd just like to say that I think emotions still run high on both sides of this primary, so if I was unduly snarky or short with anyone (aside from vercingetorix just now), I apologize.  Really, the most important thing is to keep the White House away from the hot mess that is Cindy McCain, and I think we can all agree on that. 

Grander, more qualified people than any of us will be writing about the past six months for years to come.  With the benefit of space and time, and the lack of immediate, personal involvement, hopefully they will come to inspired, insightful, intriguing conclusions that will be valuable to those studying what was a truly historic election.   


aye love ya man...but cindy isn't running...
If you prick us, do we not bleed?  
  if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison  
  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
  revenge? m.of v. w.shaka                                             speare