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Author Topic: Why Obama will lose in the fall  (Read 80578 times)

onechu82

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2008, 04:00:03 PM »
people seem to be missing the point.  it's not white racism that will cost Obama the election, its hispanic/asian racism.  as an ethnic group hispanics have huge issues with african-americans.  but don't believe me, just look at what happened to him in areas with large hispanic voting blocks.  as a voting block asians are also insanely racist, particularly against black people.  asians won't be as much of a factor however, that's simply a question of raw numbers.  i think it is indicative of the climate in which we live that this issue, the pink elephant in the room so to speak, isn't discussed.  the obsession is with white racism, which, grant you exists, but is waning, while these other forms of racism are in full swing (not to mention black racism, which is ridiculously entrenched and encouraged). discuss.

Funny cause 80% of Asian I know support Obama.

Miss P

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2008, 04:07:13 PM »
I didn't say he was, I said that he shouldn't.  The attitude among many of the Obama supporters I know is disheartening, both in their needless, baseless pseudo-hatred of Clinton and in their belief that Obama's primary campaign revolutionized the entire game. 

That is, of course, a very small sample of Obama supporters, but the pervasive attitude of the media throughout the campaign has focused on the "revolutionary" aspects of Obama's campaign.  Those aspects played well with the audience that gave him the nomination but won't play as well big-picture. 

A dose of tradition they seem to so despise is going to be necessary going into November, is all I was suggesting.  Dean-esque buyers remorse is not something that can happen in October.     

Fair enough.  (FWIW, I see some of the same baseless pseudo-hatred of Obama on Clinton blogs and among Clinton supporters, and it's making me nervous about November.)
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conoroberst

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2008, 05:58:22 PM »
Sacrifice Obama's own campaign to appease Hillary and her supporters after the things she has done? Are you kidding?

Miss P

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2008, 06:05:03 PM »
My problem with the anti-Clinton folks isn't that they chose to support another candidate, in an Oprah or Caroline Kennedy fashion.  It's the gleeful delight with which so many of them enjoyed tearing Hillary apart.  I found them rather hypocritical, especially when they resorted to using 15-year-old right-wing arguments against her, and frequently sexist.  I heard many people say they didn't like Obama's health care plan, found him inexperienced or thought his Iraq war stance was disingenuous.  I heard many more people say Hillary was bitchy, shrill or old.

I haven't read the Wolcott piece and don't have time to read it now.  I do, however, agree with you that there was a tremendous amount of misogyny directed at Clinton, some from Obama supporters.  I also saw both sides using right-wing talking points against each other (against Obama: bittergate, Wrightgate, Rezko, Bill Ayers, Hussein), and I saw a number of Clinton supporters refer to Obama as a lightweight beneficiary of affirmative action (perhaps this is what you read as a claim about his inexperience), a Manchurian candidate, a black separatist, "The Precious," "Bambi," etc.  His supporters are routinely -- and this even on the very mainstream blogs -- characterized as mindless cultists or reflexive identity voters, with names like Obamaniacs (I've used this one myself), Obamabots, Obamarxists, etc.  The hatred really does exist on both sides.

My problem with the unity ticket are manifold.  Most important, I don't think she wants to be VP.  I really believe she is suspending her campaign in name only and will continue to lobby superdelegates and push for a credentials fight to become the nominee.  Second, from what I read, her more hardened supporters will not vote for any ticket where she is #2.  I also think she has been too disrespectful of Obama's chances to make a compelling choice, and choosing her goes against some of Obama's messaging (change, anti-war). And I think he should choose someone with executive experience.  I could go on and on . . .
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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I'm so far from the end of my tether right now that I reckon I could knit myself some socks with the slack.

conoroberst

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2008, 06:08:24 PM »
I'm assuming by sacrifice, you mean rescue?

I have no idea what "things she has done."

1. Obama is beating McCain as of the latest poll, taken right before he won the nomination. By sacrifice, I mean giving up the idea of a newer, cleaner politics (see Jindal in LA) and also allowing the sideshow of Bill Clinton to overshadow him in the white house.

2. Thats part of the problem.

conoroberst

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2008, 06:28:43 PM »
I didnt say to rely on the polls, I was just pointing out that he doesnt need to be "rescued."

And please, any other candidate would have dropped out well before Obama won the nomination, much less when he won the nomination. I have to go to work though, and dont have the hours that could be spent listing the crap that she pulled. If you really feel that he wouldve done the same in her position, thats fine, but then he wouldnt expect to be VP.

You've probably seen this, but here is a start - skip to 7 minutes if you have - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLNFsl130_Y

Martin Prince, Jr.

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2008, 08:39:13 PM »
I also think there's some truth to the criticism of the Obamabots.  The Wolcott quote on my Facebook profile details my issue with them pretty well (I wonder if he's cute, because we agree a lot, apparently).  I don't think it's a huge stretch to say that there was a bit of cult-like fascination with Obama that wasn't connected to anything beyond personal affection or euphoria.     

Since this obviously isn't the case for Clinton supporters like yourself, I can rest assured that all of you are getting straight to work electing Democrats, including Obama, in November, or are pledging to vote for him? I mean, since your loyalties don't rest with a single individual in some "cult-like" fashion (one who agrees with Obama on almost all issues), you won't have any trouble doing this right?
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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2008, 08:49:41 PM »
this trick question?

Martin Prince, Jr.

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2008, 08:53:13 PM »
Because supporting a candidate we didn't feel was experienced enough for the nomination just to be good Democrats is the same as tearing apart another Democratic candidate because you developed a grade-school crush on someone more exciting?

 ::)

Love the irony of the poster who rails against the sexism in the campaign stooping to patronizing comments like "grade-school crush," as if I and other Obama supporters are a bunch of eight-year olds.

I raise you my own  ::)
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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2008, 10:30:28 PM »
my friend...there is NO such thing as racism as there is no such thing as race...it is colorism...colorists...the integumentary system...and prejudices marking a person because of partial physiognomy...

suggesting that race exists or racism is like saying the world is flat...or there is such thing as manifest destiny.

that said...richardson will assist obama with the west...

if you must label obama he is neither black nor white...if you must label...he is primarily kenyan american and irish american.


however aye think hiliary has already done irrepairable damage... :-\




people seem to be missing the point.  it's not white racism that will cost Obama the election, its hispanic/asian racism.  as an ethnic group hispanics have huge issues with african-americans.  but don't believe me, just look at what happened to him in areas with large hispanic voting blocks.  as a voting block asians are also insanely racist, particularly against black people.  asians won't be as much of a factor however, that's simply a question of raw numbers.  i think it is indicative of the climate in which we live that this issue, the pink elephant in the room so to speak, isn't discussed.  the obsession is with white racism, which, grant you exists, but is waning, while these other forms of racism are in full swing (not to mention black racism, which is ridiculously entrenched and encouraged). discuss.


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