Law School Discussion

Why Obama will lose in the fall

vercingetorix

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2008, 05:30:44 PM »
taxes on windfall profits? ending the FICA cap? increasing capital gains tax? isn't this flat out wealth distribution? can someone explain to me how this isn't a classic liberal stance?  and can someone still explain to me how Obama is going to overcome problems he has in winning over white blue collar (true DFL democrats v. the ivory tower liberal set) voters and latino voters (who are strongly anti-black) and take the national stage back from this wretched administration?

Exhibit A: "I can look you in the eye and tell you it's succeeding. We have drawn down to pre-surge levels. Basra, Mosul and now Sadr City are quiet."



not sure what this has to do with the price of tea in China.  Obama has some major issues, which the Clinton camp, no political neophytes among them, clearly see.  saying that you should be elected simply because the other guy is so lame is hardly "the audacity of hope".

Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2008, 06:02:09 PM »
In my area, city dems voted for Obama, and all the suburbs voted Hilary. Suburbanítes are overwhelmingly white. If Obama loses the election, it might be because those suburbanites are not willing to get on board where poor people already are...in Obama's camp.

what does this have to do with the price of tea in china?  the question is whether or not asian/latino racism is a far bigger issue than white racism.  i think iowa demonstrates that the answer is probably yes.  the prison population offers an interesting, albeit dystopian, snapshot of the baser side of race politics in america.  presently the most virulent anti-black sentiment comes out of the latino community. a very close second is the asian community.  this should be no mystery to anyone who has traveled to asis.  i include here the indian subcontinent, china, indonesia, japan, and korea.  these people don't like black people as a rule. racism there is far more entrenched than it is in whites in the u.s., this is particularly evident in younger white voters.  this however is not true of younger latino voters, who are even more racist in their outlook than their parents.
http://www.udolpho.com/weblog/?id=00981&title=Latino-racism
http://www.iht.com/articles/1992/04/15/eddi.php
and yet these groups are part of the democratic base.  this is the issue.  no one wants to talk about it because of white guilt.  it is a complete sham what has occurred in this country, once a bastion of open discourse.  this is why Obama stands to lose an election that democrats should absolutely win by enormous margins.

If the question is whether or not "asian/latino racism is a far bigger issue than white racism" it helps to take a look at the white racism you seem to brush off as incidental. I compared a city made up primarily of Blacks and Latinos--who voted for Obama-- to its surrounding suburbs predominately filled with whites--who voted for Hilary. Granted, some whites live in the city too, so it's not a clear demarcation between "how each Dem will vote based on his race", but then, nothing but racist ideology will manage to pinpoint that... 

vercingetorix

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2008, 06:25:11 PM »
actually i never brush off white racism as incidental.  i mention, specifically, that it is significant, but waning.  asian and latino racism (as well as a pretty rabid black racism) runs rampant in the meantime and no one seems to care.  as the enthusiastic, young and predominately white pro-Obama supporters demonstrate, a lot of white racism is fading fast.  no one has addressed the significant and over-arching racism that exists in other ethnic groups in this country.  to Obama's, and our, peril methinks.

vercingetorix

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2008, 06:28:43 PM »
here we go....now he's going to lose african-american votes as well. 

http://www.iht.com/articles/1992/04/15/eddi.php


Miss P

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2008, 07:05:56 PM »
here we go....now he's going to lose african-american votes as well. 

http://www.iht.com/articles/1992/04/15/eddi.php



I generally avoid interacting with you, but I have to ask, did you intend to link to this 1992 article about racism in East Asia?

Julie Fern

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2008, 07:12:13 PM »
this discussion of Obama as a libertarian is amusing. how does an anti-gun, pro-tax (capital gains, FICA cap, oil companies), anti-defense, internationalist possibly approach the libertarian platform on any issue of any significance to them? Obama comes from the Pelosi wing of the party, which is to say the extreme left. this is precisely what Hillary is trying to warn people of. the reverend Wrights and Bill Ayers of the world are only the beginning for Obama. when you couple this with ascendant latino and asian anti-black racism in this country you've essentially taken away most of the traditionally democratic base which is to say: minorities, and working class whites. you simply don't have enough egg-headed manhattanite intellectual types and african-americans to carry an election. the democrats look well on their way to snatching defeat from the jaws of victory once again. it makes me laugh myself silly.

silly, yes.

vercingetorix

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2008, 07:09:50 AM »
indeed, wrong link, although related to this thread.  this is what i was alluding to.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/31/obama.church/index.html

recall he said that he could no more disown reverend wright and his church than he could disown himself.

Julie Fern

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2008, 07:17:38 AM »
See, MPJ, this is where he lost me, as when questioned about the return of the rule of law in Indian Country, specifically, the right of Indians to the same fiduciary trust protections as every other American, he couldn't (wouldn't) commit himself. I'm willing to roll over for a lot, but not this, since, well, I really don't have to (see above, i.e., my vote doesn't matter.)

Looks like after the last twenty years you've decided that the perfect is no longer the enemy of the good. I don't know enough to make an informed comment about Indian Country (although that didn't stop you from talking about Obama's "libertarianism" but I digress). What I do know is he has pledged to meet with his new attorney general to review every executive order Bush has issued over his 8 years, and immediately put an end to those that are unconstitutional. He will close Guantanamo and put an end to extraordinary rendition and CIA black sites. If you think on balance that isn't enough to earn your vote, fair enough. I am surprised though about the "vote not mattering" talk from a self-described Democratic operative, so my question is if you are cynical enough to think that, why do you bother posting on (and on) about these political issues?

See, as a Democratic operative, I'm fully aware of the workings of the Electoral College. I am currently registered to vote in a Congressional District which has no chance in hell of voting for McCain, and hence, my withholding my single vote will not impact the outcome (and I say that as a former candidate who lost a legislative campaign by 25 votes - I don't take my vote's impact lightly.) I'm very happy that you have found a candidate who speaks to your central issues, but he doesn't speak to mine, which, btw, includes equal protection of the law. And it's unfortunate that you believe political cynicism should be a barrier to political speech - but then, I've also seen a lot of calls for Democrats to "shut up and get in line" this cycle, mostly from purported Democrats.

Speaking to Obama's more "libertarian" leanings (and I still reject your logic, as if the statement "Minnie Driver is fatter than Kate Moss, thus Minnie Driver is fat",) I point to his support for "privatization" of Social Security accounts and his rejection of health care coverage mandates.



wait--minnie driver fat?  who knew?

Julie Fern

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2008, 07:19:48 AM »
taxes on windfall profits? ending the FICA cap? increasing capital gains tax? isn't this flat out wealth distribution? can someone explain to me how this isn't a classic liberal stance? and can someone still explain to me how Obama is going to overcome problems he has in winning over white blue collar (true DFL democrats v. the ivory tower liberal set) voters and latino voters (who are strongly anti-black) and take the national stage back from this wretched administration?

we already got massive income redistribution, from poor to rich.  it about time direction get reversed.

counting on that trust fund hold up, eh?

Julie Fern

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2008, 07:24:19 AM »
actually i never brush off white racism as incidental. i mention, specifically, that it is significant, but waning. asian and latino racism (as well as a pretty rabid black racism) runs rampant in the meantime and no one seems to care. as the enthusiastic, young and predominately white pro-Obama supporters demonstrate, a lot of white racism is fading fast. no one has addressed the significant and over-arching racism that exists in other ethnic groups in this country. to Obama's, and our, peril methinks.

not working, sock puppet.  your message clear:  obama not win.

and you say this because mccain your boy.

eat *&^%.