Law School Discussion

Why Obama will lose in the fall

Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2008, 11:16:17 AM »
He just can't seem to shake his preacher friends... :D

mbw

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2008, 11:23:15 AM »
people seem to be missing the point.  it's not white racism that will cost Obama the election, its hispanic/asian racism.  as an ethnic group hispanics have huge issues with african-americans.  but don't believe me, just look at what happened to him in areas with large hispanic voting blocks.  as a voting block asians are also insanely racist, particularly against black people.  asians won't be as much of a factor however, that's simply a question of raw numbers.  i think it is indicative of the climate in which we live that this issue, the pink elephant in the room so to speak, isn't discussed.  the obsession is with white racism, which, grant you exists, but is waning, while these other forms of racism are in full swing (not to mention black racism, which is ridiculously entrenched and encouraged). discuss.

Regarding bolded in your post above:  You're asserting that Obama did poorly in Latino areas because Latino didn't like him due to their inherent racism, not because, well, they actually were voting FOR Clinton?  Or because Latinos perhaps don't like Obama's actual policies?  (e.g., Latinos, as a group, are much more supportive of a strong government safety net (social security, universal healthcare, etc.) and Clinton has made it a point to emphasize her commitment to those issues - Obama, OTOH, has much more libertarian views of government.)  (NB: I am neither a Clinton nor Obama supporter.  Just a 20+ year political operative (Dem.) and I currently reside in a heavily (>80%) Latino area.)

Are you kidding? You must be joking... That, or, for a 20+ year operative, you have a surprisingly weak grasp of libertarian policies.

Actually, no I don't.  And you've provided no evidence, other than faux outrage, for your position.  Yawn.

ETA:  How about I drag out Reason magazine contributor and libertarian scholar Daniel Koffler on the subject?

Actually, yeah, you do have a weak grasp of libertarian policies if you think the article you cited provides evidence for a libertarian worldview (at least in the economic sphere). Where are the calls from Obama (or his advisor) for reduced taxes and social services? Where does he call for a reduction in government? Koffler may read his advisor's agenda as "left-libertarianism" but what I read is a government providing more of a guiding, or Visible, hand in the free market, not the reverse (which would be, um, Actual libertarianism) in order to make those social justice and collective action decisions more rational to the individual. In fact, what this sounds like is efficient, good government.

frybread, I'd also like to add that I wasn't the one making the point about his supposedly libertarian policy views, so the vacuous nature of my first reply (avec le faux outrage! Sacre Bleu!) was equal to what I was replying to. If you want to make that case though, you'll have to do better than a sneer followed by a cite that doesn't actually back up what you are arguing.

Please indicate where I said Obama had strict libertarian world view.  My point, as was Koffler's, is that Obama's proposed policies are more libertarian than Clinton's, which, in my estimation, could possibly account for the purported preference in the Latino community for Clinton over Obama. 

BTW, you were the one responsible for establishing the tone of our exchange, so cut the *&^% about my purported "sneer".  I was bored by your empty critique.  Now I'm bored by your lack of reading comprehension.

TimMitchell

Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2008, 11:24:00 AM »
Obama will lose the election due to racism and his inexperience. The only hope he has is people voting for him just because they are tired of Republican after this administration. However, McCain is the ideal Republican candidate. He has shown that he isn't afriad to go against the republicans and team up with the Democrats on some issues. He is seen as a moderate republican not assoicated heavily with the Bush administration. I think its going to be a tough fight, but my money is on McCain. If the Democrats nominated a moderate Democrat with more experience (Bill Clintonesque) it would be a landslide.

Julie Fern

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2008, 01:22:35 PM »
people seem to be missing the point. it's not white racism that will cost Obama the election, its hispanic/asian racism. as an ethnic group hispanics have huge issues with african-americans. but don't believe me, just look at what happened to him in areas with large hispanic voting blocks. as a voting block asians are also insanely racist, particularly against black people. asians won't be as much of a factor however, that's simply a question of raw numbers. i think it is indicative of the climate in which we live that this issue, the pink elephant in the room so to speak, isn't discussed. the obsession is with white racism, which, grant you exists, but is waning, while these other forms of racism are in full swing (not to mention black racism, which is ridiculously entrenched and encouraged). discuss.

wait, someone discriminting against pink elephants?

why not julie notified before this?

Julie Fern

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2008, 01:23:49 PM »
Oh, man. Don't hit me with those negative waves so early in the morning.

Lol...I know. I shouldn't have even replied. I hate negativity as well. I was bored...

so being an ostrich is the answer? and the power argument fails. racism is as good old Webster defines it: 1. a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. no need for power to be a racist a$$hole. that is a cop-out.

julie love seeing you right-wing assholes try so hard put chewerful face on election.

bend over and grab ankles, son.

Julie Fern

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2008, 01:25:19 PM »
people seem to be missing the point. it's not white racism that will cost Obama the election, its hispanic/asian racism. as an ethnic group hispanics have huge issues with african-americans. but don't believe me, just look at what happened to him in areas with large hispanic voting blocks. as a voting block asians are also insanely racist, particularly against black people. asians won't be as much of a factor however, that's simply a question of raw numbers. i think it is indicative of the climate in which we live that this issue, the pink elephant in the room so to speak, isn't discussed. the obsession is with white racism, which, grant you exists, but is waning, while these other forms of racism are in full swing (not to mention black racism, which is ridiculously entrenched and encouraged). discuss.

Regarding bolded in your post above: You're asserting that Obama did poorly in Latino areas because Latino didn't like him due to their inherent racism, not because, well, they actually were voting FOR Clinton? Or because Latinos perhaps don't like Obama's actual policies? (e.g., Latinos, as a group, are much more supportive of a strong government safety net (social security, universal healthcare, etc.) and Clinton has made it a point to emphasize her commitment to those issues - Obama, OTOH, has much more libertarian views of government.) (NB: I am neither a Clinton nor Obama supporter. Just a 20+ year political operative (Dem.) and I currently reside in a heavily (>80%) Latino area.)

any pink elephants?

Julie Fern

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2008, 01:28:10 PM »
people seem to be missing the point. it's not white racism that will cost Obama the election, its hispanic/asian racism. as an ethnic group hispanics have huge issues with african-americans. but don't believe me, just look at what happened to him in areas with large hispanic voting blocks. as a voting block asians are also insanely racist, particularly against black people. asians won't be as much of a factor however, that's simply a question of raw numbers. i think it is indicative of the climate in which we live that this issue, the pink elephant in the room so to speak, isn't discussed. the obsession is with white racism, which, grant you exists, but is waning, while these other forms of racism are in full swing (not to mention black racism, which is ridiculously entrenched and encouraged). discuss.

Regarding bolded in your post above: You're asserting that Obama did poorly in Latino areas because Latino didn't like him due to their inherent racism, not because, well, they actually were voting FOR Clinton? Or because Latinos perhaps don't like Obama's actual policies? (e.g., Latinos, as a group, are much more supportive of a strong government safety net (social security, universal healthcare, etc.) and Clinton has made it a point to emphasize her commitment to those issues - Obama, OTOH, has much more libertarian views of government.) (NB: I am neither a Clinton nor Obama supporter. Just a 20+ year political operative (Dem.) and I currently reside in a heavily (>80%) Latino area.)

Are you kidding? You must be joking... That, or, for a 20+ year operative, you have a surprisingly weak grasp of libertarian policies.

you know, stuff like liberty from being spied on or put in jail without charges being brought or being tortured while in jail.

why, you for that stuff?

Julie Fern

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2008, 01:29:50 PM »
He just can't seem to shake his preacher friends... :D

what, hagee still alive or something?

Julie Fern

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2008, 01:31:26 PM »
Obama will lose the election due to racism and his inexperience. The only hope he has is people voting for him just because they are tired of Republican after this administration. However, McCain is the ideal Republican candidate. He has shown that he isn't afriad to go against the republicans and team up with the Democrats on some issues. He is seen as a moderate republican not assoicated heavily with the Bush administration. I think its going to be a tough fight, but my money is on McCain. If the Democrats nominated a moderate Democrat with more experience (Bill Clintonesque) it would be a landslide.

yes!  and victory in iraq just around corner!  and dikes in new orleans will hold!  and constitution not being violated!  and soldiers getting best equipment, medical care, and educational opportunities possible!  and my side never run out exclamation marks!

vercingetorix

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Re: Why Obama will lose in the fall
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2008, 01:34:13 PM »
In my area, city dems voted for Obama, and all the suburbs voted Hilary. Suburbanítes are overwhelmingly white. If Obama loses the election, it might be because those suburbanites are not willing to get on board where poor people already are...in Obama's camp.
Even for those who argue that Obama's words are rhetorical, the man symbolizes change for America.  America wants change.  He should be, and most likely will be our next President!

what does this have to do with the price of tea in china?  the question is whether or not asian/latino racism is a far bigger issue than white racism.  i think iowa demonstrates that the answer is probably yes.  the prison population offers an interesting, albeit dystopian, snapshot of the baser side of race politics in america.  presently the most virulent anti-black sentiment comes out of the latino community. a very close second is the asian community.  this should be no mystery to anyone who has traveled to asis.  i include here the indian subcontinent, china, indonesia, japan, and korea.  these people don't like black people as a rule. racism there is far more entrenched than it is in whites in the u.s., this is particularly evident in younger white voters.  this however is not true of younger latino voters, who are even more racist in their outlook than their parents.

http://www.udolpho.com/weblog/?id=00981&title=Latino-racism

http://www.iht.com/articles/1992/04/15/eddi.php

and yet these groups are part of the democratic base.  this is the issue.  no one wants to talk about it because of white guilt.  it is a complete sham what has occurred in this country, once a bastion of open discourse.  this is why Obama stands to lose an election that democrats should absolutely win by enormous margins.