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What political party do you belong to?

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Author Topic: What political party do most law students belong to?  (Read 16009 times)

Martin Prince, Jr.

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Re: What political party do most law students belong to?
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2008, 02:39:59 PM »

I'm not sure how changing your position based on political expediency isn't "flip-flopping" by definition. I also disagree with your (empirical?) claim that McCain isn't a flip-flopper: see, e.g., http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15227.html (documenting at least 25 instances)

I do not pretend to know what motivates people to change positions.  That is for that person to determine.  I do not consider someone changing their mind as flip flopping.  I believe that McCain may have been on the fence about it and modified his position as quickly as possibly to insure he was the nomination.  I wish he wasn't because he is the only candidate that any democrat would struggle with in this election cycle.

I voted for McCain in the 2000 primary, and was pretty disappointed by the ratfuck played on him in South Carolina. That being said, the McCain of 2000 simply bears no resemblance to the McCain of 2008. On a lot of issues, on which Iraq stands head and shoulders above all, he is simply not the same person he was eight years ago.
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Remedialone

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Re: What political party do most law students belong to?
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2008, 02:47:38 PM »

I'm not sure how changing your position based on political expediency isn't "flip-flopping" by definition. I also disagree with your (empirical?) claim that McCain isn't a flip-flopper: see, e.g., http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15227.html (documenting at least 25 instances)

I do not pretend to know what motivates people to change positions.  That is for that person to determine.  I do not consider someone changing their mind as flip flopping.  I believe that McCain may have been on the fence about it and modified his position as quickly as possibly to insure he was the nomination.  I wish he wasn't because he is the only candidate that any democrat would struggle with in this election cycle.

I voted for McCain in the 2000 primary, and was pretty disappointed by the ratfuck played on him in South Carolina. That being said, the McCain of 2000 simply bears no resemblance to the McCain of 2008. On a lot of issues, on which Iraq stands head and shoulders above all, he is simply not the same person he was eight years ago.

I agree that he does not resemble himself.  However that will not change my opinion of the man.  We simply disagree.  For the most part I try and respect others ideas.  My only qualm is with people on either side of the aisle who believe that half the country hasn't woken up or are automatically feeble.  Ultimately we will have to work together to rebuild this country after this election is over.

wrhssaxensemble

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Re: What political party do most law students belong to?
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2008, 03:25:18 PM »
Denying it is a problem is sure to fix it though, right?

and I didn't deny that it's a problem when it occurs, but I don't think it's as wide-spread as you seem to believe.  if you had read my post, you would have seen that I think people like the one mentioned in your anecdote should be dealt with very harshly by the school (whether they have tenure or not).

Actually, it is pretty widespread... you just don't feel it since you are not a conservative student in an overwhelmingly liberal atmosphere

and schools seldom, if ever help to alleviate the problem

check out fire.org sometime--- not even a conservative group but usually ends up helping conservative groups and conservative students more than others because of this problem

wrhssaxensemble

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Re: What political party do most law students belong to?
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2008, 03:28:54 PM »

I'll admit it, there are a lot of "decent" liberal professors... but there are far too many crazy ones and as far as i have found, there haven't been any crazy conservative ones since so few of them are allowed to become faculty or choose to educate instead of being in business etc.

As far as media, all I need to say is Keith Olberman or Chris Matthews but at the same time you have Sean Hannity etc. to counterbalance.  The difference though is also that I have yet to have found a conservative on a major network like CBS pull their own Rathergate... may have happened but I dont seem to recall it, mostly because there are no conservatives on the major networks.

As far as politics, pretty much anyone beyond state level (and even sometimes at state level) tends to have bad character so I wouldn't go by that standard for either side. But I do personally feel there is a lot more flip-floping and double speak from the left than the right though imo

You feel that there is?  Good to know we are basing this on feeling.  I thought liberals were supposed to be the ones who were governed by feelings.  ;)  Most liberals would answer that Rathergate was minor compared to the lack of fact checking that led to the Iraq War.  I think Scott McClellen would agree.

I just base that statement on "feeling" because I do not know enough about the media to be absolutely positive.... unlike liberals, conservatives are likely to make sure their facts are accurate and not just favorable (even if it is fabricated, liberals do not care)

as far as Iraq, while he is futher to the right, Bush isn't a conservative. But regardless, he acted on the information available at the time from the best sources available. Rather went to sources he knew for a fact were unreputable just to make a case. There is a huge difference here.

Remedialone

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Re: What political party do most law students belong to?
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2008, 03:36:26 PM »
Denying it is a problem is sure to fix it though, right?

and I didn't deny that it's a problem when it occurs, but I don't think it's as wide-spread as you seem to believe.  if you had read my post, you would have seen that I think people like the one mentioned in your anecdote should be dealt with very harshly by the school (whether they have tenure or not).

Actually, it is pretty widespread... you just don't feel it since you are not a conservative student in an overwhelmingly liberal atmosphere

and schools seldom, if ever help to alleviate the problem

check out fire.org sometime--- not even a conservative group but usually ends up helping conservative groups and conservative students more than others because of this problem

I am certain it is a pretty substantial problem, and honestly it has to suck.  Sadly politics creates a lot of vitriol.  I still remember being told to leave this country after September 11th because I told a crowd full of people that wanted revenge that before we start indiscriminately bombing we better make sure we get the right people because otherwise we will see this same problem again in 20 years."  Rationality flies out the window.  I think we can all relate to being persecuted for an unpopular opinion.  As Mark Twain said “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”

wrhssaxensemble

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Re: What political party do most law students belong to?
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2008, 03:37:02 PM »

I'm not sure how changing your position based on political expediency isn't "flip-flopping" by definition. I also disagree with your (empirical?) claim that McCain isn't a flip-flopper: see, e.g., http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15227.html (documenting at least 25 instances)

I do not pretend to know what motivates people to change positions.  That is for that person to determine.  I do not consider someone changing their mind as flip flopping.  I believe that McCain may have been on the fence about it and modified his position as quickly as possibly to insure he was the nomination.  I wish he wasn't because he is the only candidate that any democrat would struggle with in this election cycle.

I voted for McCain in the 2000 primary, and was pretty disappointed by the ratfuck played on him in South Carolina. That being said, the McCain of 2000 simply bears no resemblance to the McCain of 2008. On a lot of issues, on which Iraq stands head and shoulders above all, he is simply not the same person he was eight years ago.

My only qualm is with people on either side of the aisle who believe that half the country hasn't woken up or are automatically feeble.  Ultimately we will have to work together to rebuild this country after this election is over.

Actually, I agree.... unfortunately, I think there are two many paid talking heads on both sides who just want to win elections than to further fix our great nation.... for every Sean Hannity there is a Al Franken; for every James Carville there is a Mary Matilin.... One side wants to impeach the president for oral sex and claim it is based on perjury and obstruction of justice for his statements to the grand jury. The other side claims it is all about sex.

One side wants to impeach the president for "war crimes" or whatever the approach is... perjury etc. for going to war. The other side says it was based on faulty intelligence and not misleading.


The fact of the matter is both sides are at each others throats and while I wish they weren't, I dont see this going away anytime soon, especially with the current candidates.

Obama is pretty far to the left and while Mccain is not so far to the right, he will have to move out there to garner much support from the GOP and will probably have to pick someone far to the right for VP.

Unfortunately, the nation is too divided and I don't know how to fix it

Alecto

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Re: What political party do most law students belong to?
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2008, 03:38:33 PM »
Denying it is a problem is sure to fix it though, right?

and I didn't deny that it's a problem when it occurs, but I don't think it's as wide-spread as you seem to believe.  if you had read my post, you would have seen that I think people like the one mentioned in your anecdote should be dealt with very harshly by the school (whether they have tenure or not).

Actually, it is pretty widespread... you just don't feel it since you are not a conservative student in an overwhelmingly liberal atmosphere

and schools seldom, if ever help to alleviate the problem

check out fire.org sometime--- not even a conservative group but usually ends up helping conservative groups and conservative students more than others because of this problem

I'm not black, but I am pretty sure that if there were such public instances of racism as you claim there are of political persecution, then I would notice (and try to do something about it).  Just because a person isn't the target of some sort of discrimination doesn't mean that person will never see it or hear about it.   Again, I say that if people are upset with liberal bent in academia, more conservatives need to join the ranks and even the balance.  I would not have a problem with this.  And if you're not off protesting somewhere or wearing party-affiliated paraphenelia, I don't see how anyone is going to know.

Remedialone

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Re: What political party do most law students belong to?
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2008, 03:38:54 PM »

I just base that statement on "feeling" because I do not know enough about the media to be absolutely positive.... unlike liberals, conservatives are likely to make sure their facts are accurate and not just favorable (even if it is fabricated, liberals do not care)

as far as Iraq, while he is futher to the right, Bush isn't a conservative. But regardless, he acted on the information available at the time from the best sources available. Rather went to sources he knew for a fact were unreputable just to make a case. There is a huge difference here.

Yes conservatives always get their facts right.  Ask Bill O'Reilly about Malmady, being corrected about it and then making the same mistake.  Ask John McCain who our enemies are in Iraq and see if you get the right answer.  We knew our information wasn't reputable, that is why he had the codename "Curveball."

Alecto

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Re: What political party do most law students belong to?
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2008, 03:41:08 PM »

The fact of the matter is both sides are at each others throats and while I wish they weren't, I dont see this going away anytime soon, especially with the current candidates.

Obama is pretty far to the left and while Mccain is not so far to the right, he will have to move out there to garner much support from the GOP and will probably have to pick someone far to the right for VP.

Unfortunately, the nation is too divided and I don't know how to fix it

Unfortunately, I think this is far too misleading.  I'm really looking forward to having time this summer to really look at the political issues and the candidates' stances.  Democrats can be just as stubborn about their ideology in some ways as Republicans, and that doesn't help anyone.

Alecto

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Re: What political party do most law students belong to?
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2008, 03:44:12 PM »
wait, a correction to wrhssaxensemble's post: it's http://www.thefire.org/ in case anyone else is interested
and it is an interesting site