Penn State vs. U of Richmond

[apferg04]

Basically, I'm deciding between Penn State and Richmond. I know Richmond has a slightly better ranking but does it really matter that much?

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks in advance 

[DCLabor25]

The ranking does not matter in this situation.  Richmond might be ranked slightly higher, but Penn State is a much older school and has a lot of alumni scattered around PA.  The most important factors are a.) where you want to practice and b.) if there are any scholarships involved.  If there aren't scholarships involved, then it matters entirely where you want to practice.  If you want to practice in Richmond or Virginia in general, I would go to Richmond.  If you want to practice in PA, go to Penn State Dickinson.  If your heart is set on biglaw, my own perception is that, even with the rankings difference, you might be better at Dickinson, simply because some firms from Philly, Pittsburgh, and Harrisburg all recruit there (your grades need to be good however to be in the running for these jobs).  At Richmond, I believe it's pretty much Richmond firms and that's it (and Richmond's legal market is much like Harrisburg's -- Pittsburgh and Philly are much bigger than either of these places).

If there are scholarships involved and you don't care about the location, then I would take the $$$$.

[officeguy]

If Richmond is giving you money, go to Richmond. Richmond has an Excellent reputation within the city and a generally good reputation within the surrounding states. If you do a search and look at McGuire Woods and Hunton and Williams (two V100 Firms) you will see that they are full of UR grads. And there are several smaller market paying firms within the area. Also,  many judges within the RVA area are UR grads. As far as quality of life, UR is in a MUCH better location than Penn State Law. I don't know a ton about Penn State Law, but I know that Richmond is a tier 2 that owns the Richmond market. Basically, if you want VA, go to Richmond.

[DCLabor25]

If Richmond is giving you money, go to Richmond. Richmond has an Excellent reputation within the city and a generally good reputation within the surrounding states. If you do a search and look at McGuire Woods and Hunton and Williams (two V100 Firms) you will see that they are full of UR grads. And there are several smaller market paying firms within the area. Also,  many judges within the RVA area are UR grads. As far as quality of life, UR is in a MUCH better location than Penn State Law. I don't know a ton about Penn State Law, but I know that Richmond is a tier 2 that owns the Richmond market. Basically, if you want VA, go to Richmond.

I'd agree with this -- if you want to be in VA, then go to Richmond.

But I'd also realize that quite a few firms in all of the major PA cities hire Dickinson/Penn State grads, so if you want a job in PA, Dickinson/PSU would be the route to go.  And having visited both Richmond and the Harrisburg/Carlisle area, I am not sure that one is THAT much better than the other (I'd prefer Harrisburg/Carlisle but that's just me). 

[Ninja1]

I'd take Penn State unless Richmond cut you a decent scholarship or you really want to live in VA. Both looked like good schools when I looked at them, Penn State just appealed to me more.

[tommy1]

go to richmond

[kilroy55]

Exactly what everyone else has already said.  I recently graduated from Penn State.  We place really well in Pennsylvania, particularly in central and eastern Pa.  I have no idea why anyone would think the city of Richmond is head and shoulders above Harrisburg.  They are about the same.  Also, are you looking at Carlisle or University Park?  University Park is a college town and the main campus for Penn State (see 40,000 students).  Harrisburg itself is smaller than Richmond, but the surrounding area has approximately the same size population as Richmond.  It is about the same distance from DC (Carlisle location at least), but closer to Baltimore, Philly and New York.  You really just have to decide on where you want to live post graduation if there is no money involved.  While many students leave central PA, myself included once my federal clerkship is over, it will take good grades from Dickinson to travel out of the mid-Atlantic region.  Lastly, if you are truly stuck and have no idea because the places are so similar...the name Penn State (thanks to JoePa) carries further and you will be in new facilities starting in January at Penn State.  But that is about it.  Seriously, good luck.  The schools are so similar.  If you care to know, I chose Penn State over Richmond, but it was a close call.   

[Sergio]

kilroy, what kinds of jobs are most of your fellow grads getting?  I applied to PSU Dickinson but I'm worried about being stuck in Harrisburg or Reading forever.  I'm on their waitlist, so we'll see what happens, but I have this theory that in a tiebreaker, choose the school with the more prestigious undergrad, because that will help guide the rep of the law school in the future. 

If I get into PSU it will probably ocme down to them or Rutgers-Camden.

[kilroy55]

Well let me think...of the people that I know personally, the jobs are all over the spectrum.  Personally, I'm clerking for a federal judge in Harrisburg.  Of the other people I know, several are clerking for federal judges elsewhere. (1 in Arizona, 1 in WD VA, 1 in WD PA, 2 more in MD PA).  Lets see, two are working federal jobs (IRS and Department of Navy).  Several in firms all over PA and the mid-Atlantic--too numerous to name all the firms.  Numerous clerking for Common Pleas judges...Superior Court judges and PA Supreme Court Justices.  Plus, several working as ADAs in Philly, Harrisburg, Lancaster etc...  Not to mention the people I know doing public interest work.  I know several people, including myself, who are not taking the PA bar--Most of those people are taking NY, Mass and VA.  The majority of my friends are employed--three are unemployed as of graduation when I last saw everyone. 

As you can see, the jobs are all over the map.  Pretty much everyone is going into different areas.  I will say that your chances of BIGLAW outside the Top 10% and law review are slim.  I will not sugar coat it.  While i did not intend for it to happen, many of my friends happened to be great students.  So, my sample of job prospects represent a portion of the class who were above average.   Most of them are in the Top third of the class.  You will have job opportunities if you work hard and do well, but we are not a T1 school.  So don't expect miracles.  You will have to work for it.       

[Ninja1]

kilroy, what kinds of jobs are most of your fellow grads getting?  I applied to PSU Dickinson but I'm worried about being stuck in Harrisburg or Reading forever.  I'm on their waitlist, so we'll see what happens, but I have this theory that in a tiebreaker, choose the school with the more prestigious undergrad, because that will help guide the rep of the law school in the future. 

If I get into PSU it will probably ocme down to them or Rutgers-Camden.

In case it comes up, Penn State over Rutgers just because PA is so much nicer than NJ, everything else being equal.