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Author Topic: Help! UF vs. UM  (Read 4139 times)

Gitmo Jones

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Re: Help! UF vs. UM
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 03:50:34 PM »
Prize fighter is bitter because he got rejected from UF I believe, also if you got into both you would be handicapped not to go to Florida, look how much money you would save even on cost of living.  UF vs. UM  equals Florida no brainer, sorry Don King

jalex519

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Re: Help! UF vs. UM
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2008, 03:52:12 PM »
UF=UM in South Florida. Miami probably offers an advantage because of networking opportunities, but nobody down there shuns a UF degree. UF is still king in Florida.

UF>UM in the rest of the state.
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stinabee

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Re: Help! UF vs. UM
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2008, 03:58:57 PM »
A "Hurricane Nation" doesn't exist, am I right? :) Miami is a much smaller school than UF. If your friend goes to UF, they should be able to go out of state by tapping the huge  GATOR alumni network. Seems like Miami is great if you want to establish connections in the Miami area or perhaps transition into New York biglaw (which you can do from UF too, either way you have to do well)...otherwise, you are looking at a much smaller alumni base.

There is also the lifestyle to consider. Anyone who has lived or has known anyone that has lived in South Florida can tell you that it is much MUCH different than Gainesville or anywhere else in Florida for that matter. But to correct another poster, Gainesville isn't exactly a collection of farms and cattle ranches. It's got over 100,00 people and it's a very young fun city that is close to a lot of other areas in FL such as Tampa (2 hours), Orlando (2 hours), and Jacksonville (1 and a half hours). I'm biased because I've been at Florida for 4 years, so I would tell your friend to visit each place for a weekend and see which he likes more. Since money isn't a deciding factor he should talk with each school about their program, job placement/career services, etc...and experience the cities for himself...and not base his decision off of other people's opinions online... :) 


California_RedRaider

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Re: Help! UF vs. UM
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2008, 04:11:29 PM »


Funny how admissions officers at the best law school in FL admit UM's starting salary dwarfs theirs.  Gosh these rankings everyone talks about leave me curious.


It is well-known that generally public institutions attract more people preferring to go into the public sector. Private institutions generally attract those who want to go into the business/private sector. As I am sure you know private firms pay much more than governmental/public interests jobs. Also if you look at the average income of Law Clerks, they get paid "*&^%." As you well know there are more students from UF that become law clerks than UM. If you look at the statistics about 57% of UF grads go into private practice but nearly 70% of UM grads go into private practice. That's a pretty good difference and thus the reason for the large difference in starting salary.

Also, as stated before, the costs of living in Miami compared to the rest of Florida, not close to being the same. I do believe UM graduates tend to stay in Miami thus they are generally offered higher starting salaries.

I am not saying that UM is a bad school and not to negate the fact that many graduate and are placed in good paying jobs. But the argument you proposed is lacking.

Prize Fight Promoter

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Re: Help! UF vs. UM
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2008, 05:08:33 PM »
Prize fighter is bitter because he got rejected from UF I believe

Actually, I didn't apply to UF but my numbers would have more than sufficed.  I can't believe I am defending myself on a discussion board, but my numbers were well over UF's 50th percentiles and I'm paying 25% tuition at UM.

I didn't apply because my feet are already soaking wet in my desired industry here in Miami.  I should not have called Gainesville a rural farm; it was rude.  It just amuses me that because US News says UF is better, that means it's unequivocally better to the obnoxious Gator Nation.  Let me think here... UF is a regional Florida school ---> the biggest law market in Florida by FAR is Miami ---> UM places much better in Miami as admitted by UF personnel.  Yes.. I agree that it is a no brainer.

What happens when Time magazine comes along and ranks Miami higher than UF?  Uh oh!!  Now there's two???  A huge dilemma for the rankings-huggers.  They would be so confused their heads would explode like the Fembots in Austin Powers.

lawchica

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Re: Help! UF vs. UM
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2008, 05:30:26 PM »
Prize fighter is bitter because he got rejected from UF I believe

Actually, I didn't apply to UF but my numbers would have more than sufficed.  I can't believe I am defending myself on a discussion board, but my numbers were well over UF's 50th percentiles and I'm paying 25% tuition at UM.

I didn't apply because my feet are already soaking wet in my desired industry here in Miami.  I should not have called Gainesville a rural farm; it was rude.  It just amuses me that because US News says UF is better, that means it's unequivocally better to the obnoxious Gator Nation.  Let me think here... UF is a regional Florida school ---> the biggest law market in Florida by FAR is Miami ---> UM places much better in Miami as admitted by UF personnel.  Yes.. I agree that it is a no brainer.

What happens when Time magazine comes along and ranks Miami higher than UF?  Uh oh!!  Now there's two???  A huge dilemma for the rankings-huggers.  They would be so confused their heads would explode like the Fembots is Austin Powers.
I thank you and everyone else who replied and continues to reply for their opinion.

My friend has visited both schools- he has lived in South Florida for most of his life before attending UF for his undergrad. He has spoken with the admissions officers at both schools.

I agree that there is too much emphasis on rankings but some of the input that goes in to the rankings- LSAT scores, GPA, bar passage rate etc are relevant factors that employers would presumably consider.

I simply gave rankings so that everyone who reads the post can get a sense of why he may feel conflicted and could offer advice that may not be accurately reflected in the rankings.

 

sinkfloridasink

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Re: Help! UF vs. UM
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2008, 09:00:17 PM »
I think the passion with which UF and UM people talk about their schools tell you a lot about how different they are from each other.

UM is great for people who know they want to work in Miami - employers view the two schools equally in South Florida, with perhaps a slight edge given to UM people due to networking opportunities/alumni numbers (although there are still a ton of UF lawyers practicing in S. FLA).

But, your friend said he/she wanted to eventually go out of state. In that case, it has to be UF all the way. Although neither school will place particularly well out of Florida, UF has the edge there - it'll get you to Atlanta and a few other Southern cities. But, once again, I caution that neither school will give your friend a great shot at out of state jobs; UF might just give him/her a slightly better shot.

And that concludes the only nice things I'll ever say about UM, or the city of Miami for that matter.
Tulane c/o 2011

Ninja1

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Re: Help! UF vs. UM
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2008, 09:38:27 PM »
Martindale's lawyer locater is always helpful for these debates:

http://www.martindale.com/Find-Lawyers-and-Law-Firms.aspx

Anyway, I personally would take UF due to the much lower cost of living, the cheaper tuition, the more "university" atmosphere, I like Florida more the further North in the state I go, and Gator football. That's not to say anything bad about Miami, just I like UF more.

Either school would be a fine choice. They place well everywhere in Florida, they place well outside of Florida, and they both have a lot of street cred with the common man. You can't really make bad decision here.
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Intuition

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Re: Help! UF vs. UM
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2008, 09:48:24 PM »
I'm biased because I prefer to live in the United States, so I will abstain from this discussion. I would never effectively sacrifice my citizenship for 3 years to go to UM.

VTMercutio

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Re: Help! UF vs. UM
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2008, 10:12:34 PM »
So just because everyone has an opinion, I figured I would put in my two cents about each school. I just finished my first year at University of Miami, and my best friend is a 2L at University of Florida. I'll break down my experience and insight from both

Professors: UM has great professors that are arguably better than any other other school in FL. I tend to think it has something to do with professors finding Miami as an extremely agreeable place to retire and teach. Thats not to say that the other schools in FL don't have great professors, but I have yet to take a class at UM that isn't taught by someone that went to a top 14 school. In all truth though, don't let the faculty push you one way or the other, those same Ivy professors suck sometimes more than someone who went to a lower ranked school.

Administration: I can't speak too much about UF, my friend has yet to have a problem, but here is one area I would tell anyone to strongly think about between making a decision. The first year curriculum at UM is nonsensical in areas compared to other schools. For example, your one credit writing class is graded. This may sound minor, but it is a huge amount more stress you are placing on yourself your first year of law school. Most schools (UF included) make this course pass/fail recognizing the difficulty in standardizing the grading process. At UM, you quite literally are at the will of your writing professor as to whether they like your writing style or not. I had my professor outright say that style is essentially what she determined grades on. To have your paper you spent countless hours on, checking for relevant law, to be graded on style...is absolutely maddening. Second, as a UM 1L you have to take Elements your first semester. Anyone else ever heard of this? The only other school that USED to teach this course was Chicago, but they dropped it. What is elements about you ask? Well, I just finished it...and I have no idea...ask another alumni...and they will have the same answer.

Cost: If cost is the same...that raises an issue...if you are faced with a decision between spending 35k a year and 8k a year for instate tuition...we just seriously need to stop talking now.

Placement: UM places better in South Florida...Period. UM has direct access to Miami and a strong network in Ft. Lauderdale and West Palm. A UF grad can get a job in Miami, it is idiotic to say otherwise, but at the same time a UM grad can get a job in Tampa or Jacksonville. If you want to go out of FL, UM is the way to go. UF places largely in FL and Atlanta. UM has great ties to NYC, Chicago, and California. It is one of the only schools on the east coast, out of the t14 I know of that has a California job fair. UF may have a HUGE alumni network...but UF Law Alumni is no bigger than UM Law Alumni. Since we are hopefully talking about getting a law job after law school, I highly doubt a UF alumni that didn't go to law school is going to help you out in any way that is really worth talking about. I'm having trouble finding numbers for UF Law Alumni, but the website states "More than 16,000 alumni have graduated since the college's founding in 1909..." At the same time, UM's alumni lists 17,434...just more numbers that are all probably skewed as much as the numbers in the Rankings, but UM has just as big an alumni network as UF.

Rankings: They don't mean crap. They make good money for US News, may be a good place to start the search, but not the place to end. I'm much happier attending a lower ranked school in FL because I want to practice her than a higher ranked place in the Midwest. IMHO there isn't much of a difference between #21 and #100. Those top 20 will always be considered head and shoulders above everyone else, and the rest of the schools will be battling for regional dominance. UF and UM place differently in FL and that is something to think about. 

Conclusion: You can probably find someone from any school with qualms about the administration at any school, but it is something to take into account. Your friend needs to really think about where they want to live as most don't get very far away from the law school they attend.
University of Miami Class of 2010