Law School Discussion

Poll

In your opinion , what subject is the most difficult for 1st year law students ?

Civ Pro
22 (42.3%)
Property
7 (13.5%)
Contracts
15 (28.8%)
Torts
1 (1.9%)
Con Law
4 (7.7%)
Crim Law
3 (5.8%)

Total Members Voted: 52

What is the most difficult 1L subject ??

jdhu

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Re: What is the most difficult 1L subject ??
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2008, 11:00:03 PM »
And that would be...Civ Pro.

Many of us felt like the Professor was speaking another language during lecture.  I mean this seriously; we had NO idea wtf he was talking about.

Re: What is the most difficult 1L subject ??
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2008, 08:22:20 AM »
Crim is sneaky. It seems like it's not difficult, but then you get smoked on the exam.  Most of the people I know who did well in other classes got their worst grades in crim.  It was my small group, 17 people, and the grades ranged from A+ to F.  Crazy. 

flyaway

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Re: What is the most difficult 1L subject ??
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2008, 08:38:09 AM »
I feel like this is just about impossible to answer because it depends so much on your profs.  I mean, about half my profs have seemed to teach a pretty standard course, similar to what is in all the supplements.  But I have had others who have taught something very different, more in line with their own academic interests.  Now those were actually the best-taught classes, in my opinion, but at the same time it made them pretty different subjects than what those in other sections learned.

latinlord

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Re: What is the most difficult 1L subject ??
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2008, 08:52:14 AM »
definitely property... our professor made us read soo much..way too much..
  It is tough b/t civ pro and property.. but i kinda liked civ pro... I didn't think it was that hard. Property had the lost aspect of it.. i hated covenants and easement and future interests... Future interests alone i spent 3 days on!

Re: What is the most difficult 1L subject ??
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2008, 09:11:00 AM »
Future interests aggravated me too.  I TOTALLY agree with feeling lost in Property.
Our Prof spent weeks on FI and as a result, my study group and I put two full days into FI.
We were seriously pissed when the test only had 5 FI questions and all were simple.

Re: What is the most difficult 1L subject ??
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2008, 11:12:04 AM »
largely depends on the professor, their teaching style, their tests etc. but beyond all that it is by and large Civ Pro... the FRCP is so confusing at times that loopholes are "Accidentially" left there.... its also so foreign compared to everything else. Some things in each other class are things people usually have no problems grasping but Civ Pro seems more abstract.

For instance, to say a contract lacks consideration is to say that the parties aren't exchanging things of value or restrictions on their liberty which is of value to the other party with one another

Torts- a battery is a punch in the face that is not based on reasonable self-defense etc.

Con Law- Congress can declare war but the president cannot

Crim- a premeditated and intentional killing of another is first degree murder

Property- if someone treats property as their own and makes the general public aware of it,it is theirs through adverse possession

these classes' main concepts seem to be easy to translate into main basic statements. The difficulties come from ambiguous circumstances. For instance, if someone is restricted from smoking in certain parts of a restaurant but allowed in others and likes to sit in the non-smoking part regardless, and is offered $1million not to smoke in the restaurant, is it sufficient consideration? the two sides could argue it back and forth.
Or, for example, if the president sends troops for a limited military conflict but for various reasons refuses to call it war and congress has not authorized such actions.

Civ Pro doesn't follow that model though. Instead the circumstances are ambiguous and it is not entirely clear what rule to apply in all the cases because it cannot be reduced down to clear cut statements the way ideas from other courses can

I didn't discuss legal writing etc. but that too is pretty straight forward after you write your first few papers/prepare your first oral argument etc.

As far as best class, have to say property.... for some reason I thought (unlike the general sentiment for some reason) that future interests, present possessory interests, rule against perpetuities etc. were fascinating.... but thats probably just because I liked how you could combine ideas of scarce market resources etc. with a sense of history... cant wait for trusts and estates

Re: What is the most difficult 1L subject ??
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2008, 11:15:14 AM »
Civ Pro doesn't follow that model though. Instead the circumstances are ambiguous and it is not entirely clear what rule to apply in all the cases because it cannot be reduced down to clear cut statements the way ideas from other courses can


I had the opposite experience.  My "outline" for civpro was just a table with three columns... a Rule number, a brief description of the rule, and a case or two we talked about alongside that rule.

(Note: We didn't go into Jurisdiction much at all; that's a separate class at my school).

Re: What is the most difficult 1L subject ??
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2008, 11:27:49 AM »
Civ Pro doesn't follow that model though. Instead the circumstances are ambiguous and it is not entirely clear what rule to apply in all the cases because it cannot be reduced down to clear cut statements the way ideas from other courses can


I had the opposite experience.  My "outline" for civpro was just a table with three columns... a Rule number, a brief description of the rule, and a case or two we talked about alongside that rule.

(Note: We didn't go into Jurisdiction much at all; that's a separate class at my school).

I wish we had a seperate class for it... it took up our whole first semester. Part of my problem too might have been the teacher... nice enough guy but confusing as all hell (even worse than most professors)

flyaway

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Re: What is the most difficult 1L subject ??
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2008, 11:31:50 AM »
Our Civ Pro is only one semester with no jurisdiction or choice of law normally (separate class, like piggy said), but half of this past year's 1L class had a teacher who taught it anyway.  So it was all squeezed into one semester but, based on the study aids, seemed to be what is normally taught elsewhere in a yearlong course.

Bouzie

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Re: What is the most difficult 1L subject ??
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2008, 12:39:58 PM »
Our Civ Pro is only one semester with no jurisdiction or choice of law normally (separate class, like piggy said), but half of this past year's 1L class had a teacher who taught it anyway.  So it was all squeezed into one semester but, based on the study aids, seemed to be what is normally taught elsewhere in a yearlong course.

Even for a few good men, completing Civ Pro in this manner was nearly an impossible mission.