Importance of Undergrad and getting into top law schools

[remiz22]

What can Brown do for you?

Teach you mad ultimate-frisbee skillz

[argo]

I have long believed that, from the perspective of bettering yourself, where you went to school is far more important than what your GPA was.  My family came to this country when I was 17, right after I graduated high school.  When I arrived to NYC in 1992, I went to Baruch college (a part of CUNY for all you Midwest suburban kids who later become NYC "users").  I had a 3.9 GPA and transferred to Penn during my sophomore year.  Not just Penn - Wharton Undergrad, which has by far the most competitive curve of any UG program in the country.  I felt a sense of accomplishment, didn't work too hard, and graduated with a 3.2.

Why am I telling you all this?  Because regardless of my academic performance and how much, or little, I enjoyed my Penn experience, it gave me the confidence and opened my eyes to a world of possibilities that help me to this day and will, undoubtedly, continue to do so.  Could I have learned the same thing at, say... SUNY Binghampton?  Sure.  Would I really know the things I got to know coming out of Wharton?  No way in hell.

I will forever believe that a kid, who for four years, bummed in the back of his economics class in Harvard is getting a much better bang for a buck than someone who's sweating his ass off at the Local State.  It will pay its dividends later in life (when he decides to do something with his life).  Can everybody go to HYPSPCCC?  No.  But, if you can, it's stupid, in fact, it's a crime not to.

And, btw, my parents were on welfare at the time. Penn gave me half of tuition in grants and I paid off the remaining loans and now donate to the school.  The money argument is the biggest BS I've ever heard.

[UnoriginalAndrew]

Today I've learned that a BC Law degree is by somehow mediocre? 

But as someone who went to a very rigorous (but nowhere near as rigorous as Joey Ramone's...) ugrad, I wish to put in my two cents.

Personally I picked my elitist undergrad because I come from a not-so-wealthy family, and the financial aid package made it almost as affordable as my local state school.  After that, it became a no-brainer.  However, just noting from my friends' experiences at other schools -- I'm very, very glad I went where I did.  I've already seen how powerful the alumni network is, and I've seen how good the job prospects were in comparison to other schools.  As an uncertain high school senior, that was very important to me.  There are a lot of companies that simply won't recruit or hire people who didn't go to a certain school.

As it turns out, I'm going straight to law school, so the straight-from-ugrad job prospects aren't as important anymore.   However, I do feel that the education I received will help me out in law school tremendously.  I know how much work I had to do.  And I know how much work my friends at other schools had to do, some of whom got excellent grades.  And maybe I'll be proven sorely wrong, but I really think my education will help me out a lot more than someone who didn't work as hard at their undergrad. 

I didn't say there aren't reasons to go to Penn or Brown.  There are a lot of good reasons to go, if I got similar money from an Ivy for UG, I probably would have gone.  I get annoyed when people assume that they received this incredibly better education just because where they went to school.  I was mostly just saying it was mediocre to piss off the guy who seemed like a blind prestige-whore.  BC is good, but I'm sure it hurts him a little inside that he didn't get into Penn Law, and I take just a little pleasure in that... Call me a sadist.

Chip on the shoulder from senior year of high school?

[Bulldog86]

Can everybody go to HYPSPCCC?  No.  But, if you can, it's stupid, in fact, it's a crime not to.

That's a fair opinion to have, I guess, but I disagree pretty strongly. I myself think there's a tremendous amount to be gained from going to large state schools, especially flagships. Academically, I think you can get just as good of an education -- maybe your professor is just well-known in his field instead of being a household name, but otherwise I think the differences are overblown. But I don't think choosing an undergrad based solely on academics is really a sound decision anyway.

There's a lot of growth and personal development that goes on during that time period, and I think being around the extremely diverse environment that state schools provide (and I mean diverse in terms of who people are and what they do, not their race) is an unparalleled experience. I could probably go on about a lot of the positives that I see, but I don't really feel like it right now. But statements like "it's a crime" not to go to an Ivy (and similar ones made all over this thread) really rub me the wrong way, and.I think express a certain mentality that makes me very glad I opted not to go that route.

[dekocards]

Chip on the shoulder from senior year of high school?

Yeah Chip and I are buds.  I suppose I have a bit of a residual chip on my shoulder, but it mostly comes from being right in the face of, "Oh, Random State is really very good…" **snickers, goes off to elite private school, thinks the prestige will carry through life, fails to meet expectations, commits seppuku because it's "elite" **   So yes, I do take a little pleasure in the prestige oriented kid going to a less "elite" law school.  It doesn't mean, UG >>> JD = /killself, but it is still funny.

People give really bad advice on these boards all the time.  Going to an Ivy UG because of some assumed superior "academic experience" (as though USNWR somehow ranks academic experience...) is about the worst I've heard.  That's not to say that there aren't great reasons to go to one.  For example, if you want to go on to a Ph.D program, and you honestly believed that your ability to conduct research at the highest level in your field will be better at the Ivy, you should do it.  If you want to go directly into a prestige oriented field, maybe you should do it (though I think summa cum laude at a flagship state school will do just as well).  If you want to go to law school, it’s probably not such a good idea.  Save some bucks for a vacation right before law school.

Edit: I'm going to lounge on the beach in Mediterranean countries for a month... It's nice not having student loans.

[bruinbro]

Not just Penn - Wharton Undergrad, which has by far the most competitive curve of any UG program in the country.  I felt a sense of accomplishment, didn't work too hard, and graduated with a 3.2.

I will forever believe that a kid, who for four years, bummed in the back of his economics class in Harvard is getting a much better bang for a buck than someone who's sweating his ass off at the Local State.

1. This is hyperbole. Wharton undergrad is not known for being rigorous (nor for having an especially harsh curve) and is certainly not in the realm of MIT, Johns Hopkins, CalTech, or UChicago
2. If we are getting technical, Wharton is only really only prestigious if you have an MBA from there
3. I know your Penn experience meant a lot to you, but you have an unrealistic idea of Penn. While I agree that the bum at Harvard will have more opportunities than the workaholic at Harvard a State school, such is not the case when you replace Harvard with Penn
4. The prestige of your law school is 10x more important than your UG

I think it's a great story that you were able to make your parents pround by going to an Ivy League school, but it seems that some of your views on colleges are a little distorted.

[argo]

Not just Penn - Wharton Undergrad, which has by far the most competitive curve of any UG program in the country.  I felt a sense of accomplishment, didn't work too hard, and graduated with a 3.2.

I will forever believe that a kid, who for four years, bummed in the back of his economics class in Harvard is getting a much better bang for a buck than someone who's sweating his ass off at the Local State.

1. This is hyperbole. Wharton undergrad is not known for being rigorous (nor for having an especially harsh curve) and is certainly not in the realm of MIT, Johns Hopkins, CalTech, or UChicago
2. If we are getting technical, Wharton is only really only prestigious if you have an MBA from there
3. I know your Penn experience meant a lot to you, but you have an unrealistic idea of Penn. While I agree that the bum at Harvard will have more opportunities than the workaholic at Harvard, such is not the case when you replace Harvard with Penn
4. The prestige of your law school is 10x more important than your UG

I think it's a great story that you were able to make your parents pround by going to an Ivy League school, but it seems that some of your views on colleges are a little distorted.

1) You're an idiot
2) See 1, times 10 - Wharton undergrads don't even need to get MBA's
3) Read what I said, I compared a kid who was bumming at Harvard to one the was working his ass of at a state school
4) See 1, and a condesending one at that.

[greenie]

Not just Penn - Wharton Undergrad, which has by far the most competitive curve of any UG program in the country.  I felt a sense of accomplishment, didn't work too hard, and graduated with a 3.2.

I will forever believe that a kid, who for four years, bummed in the back of his economics class in Harvard is getting a much better bang for a buck than someone who's sweating his ass off at the Local State.

1. This is hyperbole. Wharton undergrad is not known for being rigorous (nor for having an especially harsh curve) and is certainly not in the realm of MIT, Johns Hopkins, CalTech, or UChicago
2. If we are getting technical, Wharton is only really only prestigious if you have an MBA from there
3. I know your Penn experience meant a lot to you, but you have an unrealistic idea of Penn. While I agree that the bum at Harvard will have more opportunities than the workaholic at Harvard, such is not the case when you replace Harvard with Penn
4. The prestige of your law school is 10x more important than your UG

I think it's a great story that you were able to make your parents pround by going to an Ivy League school, but it seems that some of your views on colleges are a little distorted.

1) You're an idiot
2) See 1, times 10 - Wharton undergrads don't even need to get MBA's
3) Read what I said, I compared a kid who was bumming at Harvard to one the was working his ass of at a state school
4) See 1, and a condesending one at that.

I don't want to get into this argument, but I will say bruinbor's #4 is correct.

[dekocards]

I don't want to get into this argument, but I will say bruinbor's #4 is correct.

Yes, in fact, bruinbro may have been underestimating a bit.  Once you have a law degree it doesn't make any difference.  The only people who will still try to talk about their UG is those who went the IVY BA then less prestigious JD route.  Argo's comments may make me question the intelligence of the Wharton grads we (the hiring committee at my office) interview...  Eh, probably he just hasn't pulled his head out of his Wharton ass for long enough to realize, I'll give the other Penn kids a pass.

[bruinbro]

Not just Penn - Wharton Undergrad, which has by far the most competitive curve of any UG program in the country.  I felt a sense of accomplishment, didn't work too hard, and graduated with a 3.2.
I will forever believe that a kid, who for four years, bummed in the back of his economics class in Harvard is getting a much better bang for a buck than someone who's sweating his ass off at the Local State.

1. This is hyperbole. Wharton undergrad is not known for being rigorous (nor for having an especially harsh curve) and is certainly not in the realm of MIT, Johns Hopkins, CalTech, or UChicago
2. If we are getting technical, Wharton is only really only prestigious if you have an MBA from there
3. I know your Penn experience meant a lot to you, but you have an unrealistic idea of Penn. While I agree that the bum at Harvard will have more opportunities than the workaholic at a State school, such is not the case when you replace Harvard with Penn
4. The prestige of your law school is 10x more important than your UG
I think it's a great story that you were able to make your parents pround by going to an Ivy League school, but it seems that some of your views on colleges are a little distorted.

1) You're an idiot
2) See 1, times 10 - Wharton undergrads don't even need to get MBA's
3) Read what I said, I compared a kid who was bumming at Harvard to one the was working his ass of at a state school
4) See 1, and a condesending one at that.

Excellent points. With your reasoned arguing ability and unshakable nature, you should thrive in law school.