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Author Topic: Are 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools bad?  (Read 11690 times)

Budlaw

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Re: Are 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools bad?
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2008, 08:01:51 PM »
I'm constantly amazed at the 0L's who post on here about jobs and job prospects. They haven't a clue because they haven't even tried to get a job, and they constantly comment on schools that they have no idea about.

Ugghhh...

This board is about as useful for job/career advice as unmentionables on a boar hog.

Slice57

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Re: Are 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools bad?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2008, 11:33:11 PM »
Some Tier 3 and 4 schools are bad.  Some are good.

A good Tier 3 or 4 school will have a strong alumni network in its local area, affordable tuition, and decent faculty. 

A BAD Tier 3 or 4 school is an overpriced (generally private school charging 40k/yr in tuition alone) diploma mill that has only a small alumni base and lousy faculty. 

In short: Don't evaluate a school based on its USNews ranking.  Take into account job opportunities, TOTAL cost of attendence, and teaching quality.  Crunch the numbers.  Make sure the price you pay makes financial sense.

This is dead on.

I think another good rule of thumb when it comes to T3 and T4 schools is to look at the market you want to work in and look at how many schools tend to feed graduates into your area. This was part of my logic with SLU, which is near the bottom of T2. There are two law schools in St. Louis, but many Wash U grads don't tend to stay in St. Louis. There is also some job competition from Mizzou, but they tend to place students all over the state and not just St. Louis. Compare this to NYC where there's a billion law schools, a few of them top ranked, not to mention many other students from other T14 schools looking for big paydays. With the cost of living there, you need to be leery of a lower ranked school.

The Des Moines/Drake example is another good example of a strong alumni base in a local market. You just have to be ceratin you want to work in a particular community after you graduate, and you have to find away to control the debt. I've said it over and over again, but law school is more about the right fit for what you want to do and where you want to be. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like many people think about these things before attending school, so they fall into the trap of going to the highest ranked school regardless of debt consideration. Think about all of this when considering T3 and T4 schools, and you'll make a good choice.

Nice to see somebody talking some sense. What people on this board do not realize... there are millions of lawyers out there and the VAST majority of them did not go to T14!

BTW... I go to Mizzou and you are dead on about where people from here place.

jammer

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Re: Are 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools bad?
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2008, 12:44:58 AM »
I'm constantly amazed at the 0L's who post on here about jobs and job prospects. They haven't a clue because they haven't even tried to get a job, and they constantly comment on schools that they have no idea about.

Ugghhh...

This board is about as useful for job/career advice as unmentionables on a boar hog.

Admittedly, most Ols don't know everything (or most of the time, anything )about career prospects and part of that is because they've never looked. HOWEVER 0ls - in my opinion - should know MUCH, MUCH MORE about career prospects than they do before committing the time and money investment of LS. Read articles, talk to schools, research, and talk to lawyers (your friends' parents, pre-law professors, friends of the family, lawyers who work for your company, etc) and you can get a fair idea about the schools you want to go to. Nothing beats experience of looking for a job, but you can do our homework and look at trends of job prospects. I agree that LSD is last on your list of info on places, but I don't think you can TOTALLY discount people. Aside from trolls, most people don't comment unless they've looked at/applied/attend a school in the discussion. Take it with a grain of salt, you know?

jammer

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Re: Are 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools bad?
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2008, 12:50:56 AM »
Some Tier 3 and 4 schools are bad.  Some are good.

A good Tier 3 or 4 school will have a strong alumni network in its local area, affordable tuition, and decent faculty. 

A BAD Tier 3 or 4 school is an overpriced (generally private school charging 40k/yr in tuition alone) diploma mill that has only a small alumni base and lousy faculty. 

In short: Don't evaluate a school based on its USNews ranking.  Take into account job opportunities, TOTAL cost of attendence, and teaching quality.  Crunch the numbers.  Make sure the price you pay makes financial sense.
break
This is dead on.

I think another good rule of thumb when it comes to T3 and T4 schools is to look at the market you want to work in and look at how many schools tend to feed graduates into your area. This was part of my logic with SLU, which is near the bottom of T2. There are two law schools in St. Louis, but many Wash U grads don't tend to stay in St. Louis. There is also some job competition from Mizzou, but they tend to place students all over the state and not just St. Louis. Compare this to NYC where there's a billion law schools, a few of them top ranked, not to mention many other students from other T14 schools looking for big paydays. With the cost of living there, you need to be leery of a lower ranked school.

The Des Moines/Drake example is another good example of a strong alumni base in a local market. You just have to be ceratin you want to work in a particular community after you graduate, and you have to find away to control the debt. I've said it over and over again, but law school is more about the right fit for what you want to do and where you want to be. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like many people think about these things before attending school, so they fall into the trap of going to the highest ranked school regardless of debt consideration. Think about all of this when considering T3 and T4 schools, and you'll make a good choice.

Nice to see somebody talking some sense. What people on this board do not realize... there are millions of lawyers out there and the VAST majority of them did not go to T14!

BTW... I go to Mizzou and you are dead on about where people from here place.

Thanks. I almost went to Mizzou myself, so I've read and talked to a lot of people about it (and what a gem of a school it is...outstanding if you get instate tuition,) but going to SLU and being in STL for the next three years was the tie breaker! MU is just another example of a quality, affordable education that gets overlooked by people who fear they won't get a job if they don't get into Yale.

pete.

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Re: Are 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools bad?
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2008, 10:20:42 AM »
I got a kick out of this one...

http://www.jdunderground.com/thread.php?threadId=14985

what a bunch of miserable people. but seriously,

Ignore JD Underground at your own peril.  While much of what is written there is exageration, there's a grain of truth -- the job market is horrible in some areas of the country.  And many of the jobs that are available are horrible themselves.  Several of my friends who were very passionate about having the opportunity to practice have encountered only verbal abuse, sweatshop-like hours, and even sexual harassment from partners at firms they worked for. 

In a small firm, there's no human resources to turn to when things go bad.  You might not have Title VII protection because the firm has too few employees.  The absolute power the partners have over you in your capacity as employee pretty much ensures that you either take the abuse, or resign.

i'm not saying ignore it; just that it ought to be taken with a rather large grain of salt b/c it's not exactly a representative sample. certainly there are points to be considered. i happen to be moving across the country to attend a T3 state school, which is the only school in that state and has a lock on recruiting in the state (a state i'm happy to live in). i expect to fare better than, say, BLS grads in NY or NELS grads in boston... this was a part of that calculation.

officeguy

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Re: Are 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools bad?
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2008, 12:45:26 PM »
JD Underground and xoxo are the online ghetto.  :)
"I want an anti-gravity machine. I saw it in a movie. You drink the potion, and then you just start floating all around"

$Bill

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Re: Are 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools bad?
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2008, 12:55:07 PM »
JD Underground and xoxo are the online ghetto.  :)

With the difference being that xoxo are the gangsters and drug dealers, and jdu/temporary attorney are the poor people who cant get off welfare due to the weight of the economy being driven upon them ;-)

withthesewings9

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Re: Are 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools bad?
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2008, 04:28:38 PM »
I know that I'm not an expert on what law schools are best, but I think a lot of it has to do with what your career goal is.  I'm going to a tier 3 (Pace) because they have the best human rights law program I could find and get into.  I want to work for an NGO or IO, like the UN, doing more policy and research-related work.  So I don't think it will matter as much what tier I came from.  I say try your best to be in the top of the class and be involved and it won't matter what "ranking" you come from. ;)

big - fat - box

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Re: Are 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools bad?
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2008, 05:46:03 PM »
No offense, but this has got to me one of the most clueless statements I have ever seen on a message board. You are in for a rude awakening.

I want to work for an NGO or IO, like the UN, doing more policy and research-related work.  So I don't think it will matter as much what tier I came from. 

lawordie

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Re: Are 3rd and 4th Tier Law Schools bad?
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2008, 05:54:06 PM »
no offense but thats your opinion....thanks for your 2 cents