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Author Topic: Non-traditional students hired by biglaw firms?  (Read 10791 times)

321123

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Re: Non-traditional students hired by biglaw firms?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2008, 11:51:09 PM »
Over 40 non-trad here.

T1 school, top 1/3 grades, significant prior work experience.

Got offers from several V100 firms.

IMHO, school matters lots, grades matter lots, age is not such a big deal so long as you don't give them a reason to make it one.  I learned very quickly it was very important that I let them know that I knew I was asking to be an entry level employee, and that I am totally accepting of that.

Some didn't believe me, but enough did (which is good, because it's true).

just Trev

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Re: Non-traditional students hired by biglaw firms?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2008, 12:02:27 AM »
Over 40 non-trad here.

T1 school, top 1/3 grades, significant prior work experience.

Got offers from several V100 firms.

IMHO, school matters lots, grades matter lots, age is not such a big deal so long as you don't give them a reason to make it one.  I learned very quickly it was very important that I let them know that I knew I was asking to be an entry level employee, and that I am totally accepting of that.

Some didn't believe me, but enough did (which is good, because it's true).



smells flamish...

key indicators:
1. poster identifies himself as the exact perfect candidate we would need to solve this little dilemma
2. poster offers some lame insight anyone could have come up with
3. poster insists his post is true...
4. first ever post by someone named "321123"...

smells like shivenstein

321123

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Re: Non-traditional students hired by biglaw firms?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2008, 12:07:50 AM »
Or, alternatively, it could be someone who only lurks on law school boards, knowing the really awful things that can happen when someone gets too involved (see, e.g., XOXOHTH) but nevertheless felt the need to offer a word of encouragement to one who is struggling with the same fears they struggled with.

That's another distinct possibility.

Jolie Was Here

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Re: Non-traditional students hired by biglaw firms?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2008, 07:17:26 AM »
Over 40 non-trad here.

T1 school, top 1/3 grades, significant prior work experience.

Got offers from several V100 firms.

IMHO, school matters lots, grades matter lots, age is not such a big deal so long as you don't give them a reason to make it one.  I learned very quickly it was very important that I let them know that I knew I was asking to be an entry level employee, and that I am totally accepting of that.

Some didn't believe me, but enough did (which is good, because it's true).



smells flamish...

key indicators:
1. poster identifies himself as the exact perfect candidate we would need to solve this little dilemma
2. poster offers some lame insight anyone could have come up with
3. poster insists his post is true...
4. first ever post by someone named "321123"...

smells like shivenstein

Well here:

1. I'm in my 30s, 3L at Michigan. . .
2. I have no insights lame or otherwise, other than that I suspect I did slightly less well in OCI than I would have 8-10 years ago, or even 4-5 years ago, but still had several callbacks. . .
3. Regardless, I got a NYC biglaw gig at the firm which had been my top pick going in. . .
4. Enough posters know me IRL (or a vague facsimile) to know that this is 100% fact. . . 


I was referring to your intellectual penis. Which is quite robust.

Jolie is creeping up on me. 

just Trev

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Re: Non-traditional students hired by biglaw firms?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2008, 01:02:03 PM »
flame extinguished.  everyone back to work.

321123

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Re: Non-traditional students hired by biglaw firms?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2008, 02:10:08 PM »
Incorrect.

Encouraging and accurate words for OP remain as posted, despite attempts to discredit.

just Trev

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Re: Non-traditional students hired by biglaw firms?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2008, 04:11:21 PM »
misunderstood. 

what i meant was "the potential flame has been exposed as a legitimate post.  everyone back to work."

archival

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Re: Non-traditional students hired by biglaw firms?
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2008, 11:00:27 AM »
Flame. If 321123 were law review material, he'd know not to italicize the comma following the "e.g." signal.

 :D

But that comma is not, in fact, italicized.  Gah!  Bluebooking!

So. My school refuses to give OCI results broken down by age (I asked); I assume others refuse as well.  Still, anecdotally, it seems that age is an issue, starting somewhere around 30.  But it's not a threshold one; it's just one factor among many. Important, too, is that this seems less true for men.  So if you have grades, school, relevant experience, a good story, some geographic flexibility, and a personality that fits well in that environment, just being older than average won't prevent you from getting a job at a big firm.

I think a claim that age doesn't matter at all is nuts, though.
But how do you deal with someone who rejects your broad moral principles?
I kill them.

vercingetorix

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Re: Non-traditional students hired by biglaw firms?
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2008, 01:08:54 PM »
I go to UW Wisconsin.  I am in my mid-30's.  Top 1/3 of my class.  No journals or other law school related activities. I got callbacks and offers from every significant firm in Madison and Milwaukee.  The reason grades are so significant your first year is to get your foot in the door. At the initial interview they simply want to make sure you are potty trained and that you can form complete sentences. When you move onto callbacks where you spend an entire day interacting with partners at work, over lunch, cocktail hour and dinner, your experience interacting with adults in social settings is a huge advantage.  It helps when many of the senior associates and young partners at a firm are about your age.  You are often dealing with similar things (spouse, young kids, purchasing a home, etc.) and you have more experience to draw from than "once in my frat..." or "in class one time...".  This is not to say that there aren't insanely bright and talented younger people who do well in these situations, I just found that even the best of them came off as immature.  I thought my age was an advantage.  Obviously this argument has limits. I think if you are in your mid 40's or early 50's this is a tougher sell.  But if you are anywhere in you late 20's or early to mid 30's I think you relate to people making the hiring decisions better. Again, and I know I'm going to get a ration of sh!t for this, but this isn't a reflection on the overall quality of the younger students.  Unless you are a potted fern, you pick up tricks, techniques, etc when interacting with others in social and professional settings as you get older.  At 23 I wouldn't have a chance against me at 33 in an interview, there is just not way.  I made mistakes back then I would never make today. Things I would have done or said that would have seemed fine then, now appear awkward.  Anyway, you get the point.  i can talk with you offline if you want.  i have other thoughts about mentioning quality of life issues and part-time work.  I did it every time.  They seemed relieved that I admitted I wanted a life in addition to work.  Remember a lot of these people are also judging if they'd want to have you over for dinner with their families on a semi-regular basis. anywho, that's all i have for now.

jacy85

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Re: Non-traditional students hired by biglaw firms?
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2008, 01:31:12 PM »
You are often dealing with similar things (spouse, young kids, purchasing a home, etc.) and you have more experience to draw from than "once in my frat..." or "in class one time...".  This is not to say that there aren't insanely bright and talented younger people who do well in these situations, I just found that even the best of them came off as immature. 

For the record, I'm under 30, married, own my own home, was never in a sorority, and never once talked about class in interviews unless I was asked what class was my favorite or something along those lines.

I'm not disagreeing that age can be a benefit OR a hurdle, depending on where you're at and what else you have going on for you, but to make a relatively broad statement that all young people talk about is frats and class is pretty insulting to someone under 30.  And even where you acknowledged that there are bright and talented younger people, you immediately asserted that they're all still immature.  These types of judgments and assumptions hurt everyone, because they go both ways. (and I do see that you tried to "soften" your stance later on, but I don't think you were quite successful enough to undo the insulting nature of what's quoted above).

Bottom line, a person's age can be a benefit or a burden.  Younger people may face the immature stigma in some places and jobs, and older can be assumed to not want to start at the bottom of the associate pack.  But it's all about how you spin it.  Several people I summered with and will be 1st year associates with me at a BigLaw firm were older and came from another career or with several degrees under their belt.  They spun their experience and their age as positives on their resume and their interview, and it obviously worked for them.  Also, several older students at my school got great jobs in both big firms and government.