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Author Topic: 168, 3.6 gpa Rejected everywhere  (Read 9802 times)

jacy85

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Re: 168, 3.6 gpa Rejected everywhere
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2008, 12:26:13 PM »
I fail to see how she can have a 3.6.  Failing out is going to require a first year gpa of less than 2.5.  I got 2 C+s freshman year, and they put a significant dent in my gpa throughout college, despite getting mostly As for the rest of school.

What she should be doing now is trying to make appointments to talk with someone in admission from the schools she really wanted to go to and try to ask what was wrong with her application.  Now is the time to do it, because they're in between admissions cycles at this point.  We can speculate all we want about the problem, but we're not sitting on admissions committees, reading her essays, and looking at her other materials.

If she reapplies next year, I think she should write an addendum about her drug history, and one for failing out of school.  In the drug one, she should simply acknowledge her convictions, and then focus on what she's done to take responsibility for that, and, if she's been clean for a significant period of time, she should note that too.  For failing, she should again simply state what happened, note in non-whiny tones that she had personal issues, but then highlight her success once she went back.

And the admissions consultant someone suggested might be a very good idea for her.

Budlaw

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Re: 168, 3.6 gpa Rejected everywhere
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2008, 12:46:51 PM »
That is good advice but I don't think she will have a problem with the character and fitness portion of the bar. I know some of this stuff has been expunged from her record and the pot stuff, she had such a small amount all 3 times that she was given possession tickets, not arrested.

Thank you for the reply.

Dude, it really doesn't matter that it was expunged. Its still there. The bar won't care about it being expunged or anything. Its part of her criminal record, and it shows that she may have a tendancy for drug addiction. Three convictions (even expunged convictions) for drugs (even though its "only" pot) is a very serious matter.

In all seriousness, you may want to advise her to seek a different career path.

dukedogalley

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Re: 168, 3.6 gpa Rejected everywhere
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2008, 01:10:34 PM »
Is it possible her PS was awful?  I mean, three minor pot possessions is not good don't get me wrong but if she really has changed she should be able to use her PS and LOR to cpnvey that...linking the PS to her drastic upswing in GPA after the bad times and, shoing how she overcame the bad times puts a positive spin on the situation...most adcomms like PS that show the ability to overcome adversity....

in any event, i would advise her to get in touch with the bar, if they tell her that the pot possession won't be a problem for admittance as long as she stays out of trouble and discloses she needs to RELAY that information to the schools she apploed to...she should also interview with adcomm members at the schools she would like to attend and personally tell them her story...

if that doesn't work i wouldn't advise her to give up...schools appreciate persistence, it shows that she truly wants to be a lawyer and being shut out the first time won't stop her...tell her to re-apply next cycle...maybe she could add something to her resume or an experience to add to a PS (working with troubled kids or something) those numbers are good and she should be able to get into a T1, more time between her application and her offesne won't hurt either.


CRDFNSKY

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Re: 168, 3.6 gpa Rejected everywhere
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2008, 01:50:35 PM »
Expungments are not going to help the situation. Bar applications are worded in such a way that you must disclose expungments. You may ask, "but, how will the bar find out if she doesn't tell them and there is no record of it?" There is a record of it. The record is just considered sealed. In many states, disclosure to inquiring bar authorities for character and fitness examination purposes is allowed by statute or case law. Plus, these are not likely to be expungable offenses now because, at least in the case of the pot, there have been multiple convictions. Expungments are harder to get than people think.

Failure to disclose something like theft or pot possession will most definitely get the bar app denied because failure to disclose is viewed as an attempt to deceive. Good luck ever being admitted to the bar anywhere after that. As far as those convictions are concerned, she's stuck with them. The problem with those particular types of convictions is they go to the heart of two major concerns of state bars; honesty and substance abuse. She needs to call the state bar in the jurisdiction she wishes to practice in and discuss it with their character and fitness people. And, under no circumstances should she try to apply to schools and not disclose these things on their app. Character and fitness investigators will compare your bar app to your law school app and it will raise questions why you disclosed on one app and not on the other.

SASS

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Re: 168, 3.6 gpa Rejected everywhere
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2008, 02:05:01 PM »
Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it. I hear the concerns about non-disclosure and she did disclose everything. She knew better than to risk not being able to sit for the bar because of a non-disclosure issue. I am going to really quickly address some other concerns people have raised. First, her lsac gpa is a 3.6. Again, this isn't me so when she says failed out, I don't think she was technically asked not to return to school, I think her parents pulled her out after failing to realize her potential. She scored extremely high on her SAT and was a good student in high school so I think it was her parents pulling her out because of poor grades. She received all A's (i think) at her next institution.

Also, her personal statement was really good. She is a very good writer and she talked about doing an independent study with her rabbi. I didn't read it but I know her writing capabilities (we were both english majors together in undergrad).

I guess the question is how does one overcome the spots on the record. Again, I received great advice from all of you so thank you. I never thought of suggesting an admissions consultant, that is probably going to be her best avenue. 

jeffislouie

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Re: 168, 3.6 gpa Rejected everywhere
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2008, 03:02:13 PM »
It depends on the criminal issues, but my initial instinct would be that her essay must have been sub-par (barring of course the notion that she applied late enough in the cycle that spots had been filled).
The easiest course of action is to have her let at least 3 people read her essay and try to revise it - she may have focused too much on her criminal past OR she may have not.
Simply taking responsibility for a criminal/questionable past is not enough - law schools want to ensure that their admitted students are of a high moral character.  That said, she needs to explain why she did what she did, what she learned, and that she is repentant.  Acknowledgement is not the same as accountability.
A quick and easy way to determine this is to take a look at her essay and her supplement.
Another issue may be her LOR's.  If she got LOR's that express concern, she may be in bigger trouble than you know.
Seeing a consultant would be helpful as well....
Justice is tangy....

mtbrider59

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Re: 168, 3.6 gpa Rejected everywhere
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2008, 03:10:15 PM »
Besides the advice on vcontacting the ABA. What is she doing now?
If she can, she might try doing something to show that she has put her past behind her- maybe volunteering with someone like Amercorps or maybe as a volunteer counselor working with teenage drug addicts; especially if she could do such and get a sparkling recommendation from a supervisor. Just some ideas.  And she should definitely cast her net a little wider.. there's some other pretty good schools not far from DC area- George Mason, University of Maryland, maybe even Penn or Rutgers, etc.

Bulldog86

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Re: 168, 3.6 gpa Rejected everywhere
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2008, 03:27:04 PM »
Not directly related but something else to consider before moving to hire a consultant or anything is that drug convictions can prevent you from receiving student loans (basically if you were on drugs and had federal loans at the same time). You might direct her to http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/before013.htm to make sure this won't apply to her.
UVA Law Class of 2011

SASS

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Re: 168, 3.6 gpa Rejected everywhere
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2008, 03:36:05 PM »
Not directly related but something else to consider before moving to hire a consultant or anything is that drug convictions can prevent you from receiving student loans (basically if you were on drugs and had federal loans at the same time). You might direct her to http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/before013.htm to make sure this won't apply to her.

Wow, I didn't know that and I have loans! I am about 90% sure she didn't though.

I know George Mason also turned her down....There are quite a few schools she applied to. Volunteering is a great idea and I know she is going to working at a law firm during her year in purgatory. Thanks.

NeverTrustKlingons

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Re: 168, 3.6 gpa Rejected everywhere
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2008, 09:09:53 PM »
Please don't hire an "admissions consultant," who is just someone in a fake industry trying to make a buck.  I note earlier that you say the PS was excellent dealt with independent study... I think (and this has already been mentioned) it must really discuss the convictions and what she has done with her life since then.  If she just tried to slip those in via listing them I can understand how she would be rejected.

The "bar eligibility" concern is pretty much a crystal ball question, as far as I understand.  Some jurisdictions might have specific rules about convictions but must use a holistic review of the candidate.
I'll never trust a Klingon.  Klingon bastards killed my son.  -- Captain James T. Kirk, USS Enterprise NCC-1701