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Author Topic: Are there any midsize (100+) that would hire a Cooley?  (Read 1535 times)

Remedialone

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Are there any midsize (100+) that would hire a Cooley?
« on: April 25, 2008, 11:03:19 PM »
Ok so here is the deal.  I will be attending Cooley in the Fall at the Grand Rapids Campus.  There are many reasons for this decision but the primary factors in it are I will not have completed my BA (75 Credits) I had an absolutely abysmal semester as a Freshman and my GPA suffers terribly and most importantly I will receive 100% tuition.  I have lurked on the board long enough to understand everyones concerns with Cooley and I think many of them are valid.  The question I have is are there any mid-size firms out there that would be inclined to hire a Cooley Grad?  Like every 0L I fully intend on being towards the top of my class.  I am a nontraditional student (31 in September) and am not plagued by the Academic problems of my past anymore.  So I guess the gist of my question is what is the best a Cooley Graduate can reasonably hope for?

plex

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Re: Are there any midsize (100+) that would hire a Cooley?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2008, 05:03:35 AM »
It is going to be tough, look at attorney/clerk profiles in the region where Cooley is located (where it should have the strongest placement), you will likely see that most firms do not have any Cooley graduates or only one. The fact that Cooley only has 3 OCI firms and a 1L class size of 2000 should also tell you something about how firms view the school, that means many firms right next door to Cooley drive hours to the other local schools to do OCI, the next lowest OCI number in the state is UDM, another tier 4, with 29 OCI firms and a 1L class size of something like 200.

Do the math and if you would really like to get an idea, do the research, it probably won't be pretty. Cooley is honestly almost in its own tier (tier 5), especially when you compare it to the other local schools.

Considering you got a 100% scholarship, I am guessing your LSATs were decent, probably something in the 158-162 range, you can do a heck of a lot better than Cooley if you just wait one year to finish undergrad. I wouldn't have even bothered posting if it weren't obvious you actually do have other options and that Cooley was your only hope, it would be similar to kicking someone when they are down and would be unnecessarily cruel. You have other options, or at least, you will have other options.

Astro

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Re: Are there any midsize (100+) that would hire a Cooley?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2008, 09:57:20 AM »
You would honestly need to be in the top 2-3% of that class to stand a chance.  And even then, not a great chance.
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all. 

Remedialone

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Re: Are there any midsize (100+) that would hire a Cooley?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2008, 05:21:22 PM »
I'll be honest, I am not looking for Biglaw money.  I would even be happy to come out at the median (56k) but would be pleased as punch to be in the 75-90k range.  Is this a realistic goal?  On this board we talk all about Biglaw, PI, and Ambulance chasers but not any of the firms in between and there is a derth of information out there.  I have seen the bactrian chart about law salaries and understand that to getting into the first quintile of salaries is out of the question.  I appreciate your comments thus far.

AmyWaxFanClubPresident

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Re: Are there any midsize (100+) that would hire a Cooley?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2008, 05:35:06 PM »
You kinda answered your own question here.  There aren't many firms between BigLaw and SmallLaw.  Many of the 80-200 lawyer offices are boutiques or satellites of Biglaw firms.  There are very few true MidLaw firms that pay in the 80-120k range.  These tend to be regional firms in secondary and tertiary markets, and these jobs are super-competitive due to their small class size.

I'll be honest, I am not looking for Biglaw money.  I would even be happy to come out at the median (56k) but would be pleased as punch to be in the 75-90k range.  Is this a realistic goal?  On this board we talk all about Biglaw, PI, and Ambulance chasers but not any of the firms in between and there is a derth of information out there.  I have seen the bactrian chart about law salaries and understand that to getting into the first quintile of salaries is out of the question.  I appreciate your comments thus far.
"This semester I will plunge you into the slough of despair, and when you are at your most desolate and are ready to give up, I will give you some light" - Professor Amy Wax

plex

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Re: Are there any midsize (100+) that would hire a Cooley?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2008, 06:49:24 PM »
Right, if you looked at a graph which shows the range of salaries for lawyers, you would notice two very striking, gigantic spikes in the pay range. One is at the 30-60k range, and then the other is at 135-160k range. These ranges (unsurprisingly when you think about it) actually have more to do with the TYPE of law you are practicing rather than the size. The small amount of jobs in the area between these two gigantic spikes are almost always one of the lucrative types of law in a smaller market, almost no one from the less lucrative types of law makes the sort of money on the same scale the more lucrative types of law make.

Unsurprisingly again, large firms tend to a do a lot more of the lucrative types of law rather than the less lucrative types of law, they need a cushion for all the additional costs of being large. They pay well more as a result of the type of law they do rather than their size.

There are only a few (I only know one for sure) of the lucrative types of law that are done by all ranges of sizes of firms and that is IP, even small IP firms are way above the lower spike, because it is a lucrative type that can, at least in one of its major forms, be practiced easily in a small setting.

So if you want something that pays more than something in the 40-50k average range, at least starting out, you need to get into one of the lucrative types of law. The best way to do that is to go to the best school you can get into and do well there.

Good luck.

Remedialone

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Re: Are there any midsize (100+) that would hire a Cooley?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2008, 07:37:13 PM »
Plex,

I appreciate your answer and I am very aware of the bimodal chart.  However it is my understanding that the two extremes represent less than half of the available salaries (I think what I saw was 40%) so based on that data most lawyers will receive jobs that are neither in the upper quintile or the lower one.  Most fall somewhere in between.  I am aiming for the in between.  I would like to end up in a market around 50k-300k in terms of population (Grand Rapids would be ideal).  What are the jobs in these areas?  What are the, let's call them soft requirements (I.E. Prestige of LS) of these careers?  I know about TCLS first year attrition rate being the tenth worst in the nation I am aware that if you do survive that the bar passage rate is very sketchy (most recently 80% but 63% over the course of 6 years and this despite MI bar being one of the easiest in the country)  yet despite only 63% of the students passing the bar something around 500 out of 600 reported employment statistics and 82% were somewhat employed (feel free to drop this number a little because 25 were 'self employed' with an average starting salary of 52k which means either there are 50 or so graduates (purely an estimate) making over 100,000 a year or more than likely several graduates making in the 65-90k range to balance out for those making under the median OR everyone irregardless of competence or ability is making 52k.  :)  As I said, 65k sounds pretty sweet to me. 

Astro

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Re: Are there any midsize (100+) that would hire a Cooley?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2008, 08:28:46 PM »
Yeah, the middle of that graph (between, say, 65 K and 135K) is mostly covered by smaller/solo practices in large markets or (true) mid-size firms in mid-size to smaller markets.
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all. 

Astro

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Re: Are there any midsize (100+) that would hire a Cooley?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2008, 08:30:48 PM »
BTW, not quite coincidentally, your ability to land one of those jobs in the middle of the graph (representing that 50-60%) is directly correlated to how well you network.  Most of these positions are not available at OCI.
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all. 

Remedialone

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Re: Are there any midsize (100+) that would hire a Cooley?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2008, 08:36:09 PM »
Thank you THGP,

You have been incredibly helpful.  I am working on the networking part however unfortunately all of my contacts right now are in the CHI market and as much as I CLEARLY love the Cubs I do not want to necessarily live in Chicago.  I will start working on a new network as soon as I get to Grand Rapids.  I know I should be focusing not so much on what the job market may hold in three years but on being successful at school but what fun is that?