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Author Topic: 0L Please Help  (Read 2457 times)

vandypants

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0L Please Help
« on: April 24, 2008, 06:58:14 PM »
Now that you guys have a year under your belt, I was wondering if you could bring this 0L up to speed.

Here are my questions:

1. What is a "hornbook"?
2. When people talk about commercial outlines are they talking about the sites with generic outlines online or are commerial outlines books???
3. Which are the best hornbooks and commerical outlines for all the core classes?

- Contracts
- Torts
- Civ Pro
- Property
- Constitutional Law
- Criminal Law

4. Are there any other suggestions you can give about what worked well for you?

(Thank you very much  :))

NYC2L

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Re: 0L Please Help
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 07:08:51 PM »
1. A hornbook and a commercial outline are practically the same thing. I think people often use the terms interchangeably. However, I would describe a hornbook as an overview of the course; while a commercial outline focuses on cases.

3. The best hornbook is Examples and Explanations by Glannon. It is for civil procedure. The same company produces hornbooks for other classes and I will vouch for their Contracts and Torts hornbook. Personally, I did not like their property one. Beyond that, hornbooks are very similar and it probably doesn't matter which brand you use.

4. Don't rely on hornbooks or commercial outlines. Brief cases and make your own outlines. Also, I highly recommend reading Law School Confidential. It really helped me hit the ground running. Attend every class and read every case twice. The second time through I highly recommend making notes in the margins and highlighting key phrases. Finally, besides reading LSC, don't try to get ahead over the summer. Relax. It will be your last opportunity to do that for three years.

I can't say this will work for everyone but it enabled me to transfer from a T25 to a T5.

Good luck.
Good luck with 

vandypants

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Re: 0L Please Help
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 08:14:20 PM »
1. A hornbook and a commercial outline are practically the same thing. I think people often use the terms interchangeably. However, I would describe a hornbook as an overview of the course; while a commercial outline focuses on cases.

3. The best hornbook is Examples and Explanations by Glannon. It is for civil procedure. The same company produces hornbooks for other classes and I will vouch for their Contracts and Torts hornbook. Personally, I did not like their property one. Beyond that, hornbooks are very similar and it probably doesn't matter which brand you use.

4. Don't rely on hornbooks or commercial outlines. Brief cases and make your own outlines. Also, I highly recommend reading Law School Confidential. It really helped me hit the ground running. Attend every class and read every case twice. The second time through I highly recommend making notes in the margins and highlighting key phrases. Finally, besides reading LSC, don't try to get ahead over the summer. Relax. It will be your last opportunity to do that for three years.

I can't say this will work for everyone but it enabled me to transfer from a T25 to a T5.

Good luck.
Good luck with 


I appreciate this advice more than I can express. Thank you. :)

thorc954

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Re: 0L Please Help
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2008, 10:52:51 PM »
NYC2L is pretty accurate with the descriptions.  I would advise against buying any hornbooks, at least not in advance.

I only purchased one commercial outline during my first two years.  I had too, cause it was written by the professor who taught the class and it was an open book exams, so I figured it was a great resource.

Anyway, I found that I could pretty much learn all of the material from the readings/class lectures.  It was a lot cheaper and a lot easier then reading additional books.

Whenever I had questions, I either searched the NYU outline bank (and I dont go to that POS school  ;)) but the students there prepare extremely in depth outlines that really explain the concepts and cases, or I would wikipedia it.

That said, studying is a personal thing, NYC2L and i are pretty much as intelligent as each other (I have better hair), and used completely different methods and both turned out doing well (him slightly better, but I think its cause his girl is mad smart and that wore off on him).

Good luck at Vandy, ive heard great things.

thorc954

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Re: 0L Please Help
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 11:08:17 PM »
con law=wikipedia :)

The Artist

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Re: 0L Please Help
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 11:25:59 PM »
I think you guys got primers confused with hornbooks... hornbooks are expensive books that trace the history of the law and cases in more depth. E&E primers are more basic overviews, and commercial outlines are the nitty-gritty black letter law.

NYC2L

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Re: 0L Please Help
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 12:21:43 AM »
I think you are confusing hornbooks with treatises which are "expensive books that trace the history of the law and cases in more depth." I have never heard the term primer (probably a regional thing) but it can assuredly be used interchangeably with hornbook.

In an effort not to confuse the OP with semantics: E&E (includes Glannon), Gilbert, Westlaw, etc., are overviews and analyzes of relevant legal issues and case law. E&E, Gilbert and others pose questions after each section that I recommend answering as a supplement to other studying.  Commercial outlines are briefs of cases and "nitty-gritty black letter law" as it relates to each case. As thorac954 said, "don't buy these in advance." And, if you do buy them, I don't recommend getting more than 1 for each class. Otherwise, it is just too much material.

themanwithnoname

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Re: 0L Please Help
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 01:12:05 AM »
My understanding is that technically, a hornbook refers to a single volume treatise targeted towards practitioners and/or law students. E&E is not, technically, a hornbook, but more like a hornbook-ish study guide. Chemerinsky's Con Law book and Miller's single volume Civ Pro book are hornbooks. PS, I think these are realy useful if you know how not to overdo it and read sections that have no relevance to the course.

NYC2L

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Re: 0L Please Help
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2008, 01:32:18 AM »
I did some quick google searches (I'm board) and it seems like "supplement" is the most common term used to describe the E&E series. And, according to Wikipedia, "in United States Law, a hornbook is a text that gives an overview of a particular area of law." That seems to comport with withthemanwithnoname viewpoint. I'll leave it at that. I also agree that one must not overuse supplements nor use them as replacements.

vandypants

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Re: 0L Please Help
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2008, 02:30:01 PM »
Um, I appreciate all this because I am learning...(by the way, I never realized Wikipedia was useful for law school)...but, what exactly should I buy for each class, then? Is this right? The E&Es for each class, a black letter law outline for each class + ??? anything else.

By the way just bought Law School Confidential. Thanks for the tip NYC2L.