Law School Discussion

Cornell or Vandy or TX, What would you do???

Re: Cornell or Vandy or TX, What would you do???
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2008, 11:54:32 AM »
Can somebody else take over?  I'm getting a headache.

Re: Cornell or Vandy or TX, What would you do???
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2008, 12:04:54 PM »
I don't personally think that Cornell is worth an extra 100k if you don't want to go to NY.  If you want Houston I think Texas is the pretty obvious choice.  10k or so difference between Texas and Vandy is not going to be that big of a difference.  Now if for some reason you liked Vandy better than Texas, I think you could still go back to Houston.  If the two schools are even in your mind though, go to Texas... also tell vandy to give me your scholarship :)

Trill

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Re: Cornell or Vandy or TX, What would you do???
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2008, 02:07:59 PM »
If you want to stay in Texas you should go to UT. No school places better that UT there.. the biglaw firms are packed full of UT grads. If you want to go somewhere else you should either go to Vandy or Cornell.. probably depending on which you like more, and in that case you have to balance money against job prospects and how much you like the school. Vandy places better than UT in the rest of the South, but it does NOT place as well in Texas.

I'd like to see proof of this.

I'll show you mine when you show me yours.

And to the OP, anybody that gives you advice peppered with statements like "I don't think" or "I find that hard to believe" might not be the most authoritative source on the subject.  ;)

Sure, we can just accept (at face value) the vague statements by a person with a University of Texas avatar. I'm sure they are offering objective advice. While my firm placement data may have some shortcomings, your arguments have even more.

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Ha ha.  Touche.  I think we can all agree, no matter how incomplete or anecdotal our justifications may be, that it's preferable to have SOMETHING supporting our opinions instead of just saying "I don't think it's that way."

And, fortunately, I have data that supports my opinion that Vandy and Texas place similarly as a whole. They're roughly the same rank nationally, and NLJ data shows that they place similarly in terms of hiring.

You don't have any data outside of anecdotal stories that cannot be verified regarding hiring partners at BigTex firms.

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The Vandy trolls are out of control nowadays.

Go to Texas.  Seriously.  I have a hard time believing that Vandy is breaking the Texas market with ease.

I'm not a Vandy troll. But if it came down to Texas with a little debt, or Vandy with no debt and money in the bank, I'd go to Vandy. The schools are far too similar to make the cost justified, unless of course I was absolutely dying to be in Austin as opposed to Nashville. That's when a school's soft factors can come into play.

If it was the same situation, financially, but reversed in favor of UT, I'd suggest UT.

Re: Cornell or Vandy or TX, What would you do???
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2008, 02:10:09 PM »
Trill, don't try to cite actual data... it hurts his head.  Have some sympathy for those Texas boys.

Re: Cornell or Vandy or TX, What would you do???
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2008, 02:37:49 PM »
Absolutely nobody said Vandy grads couldn't get Texas.  All anybody is arguing is that Texas gives you better opportunities in Texas, even if it doesn't outside Texas.  Region is important, even for the bottom of the top 14. Of course students from well respected schools CAN expand to other regions, but we are discussing what schools gives you the best chance.  And no, for the purposes of this discussion, Texas and Vandy are not in the same region.  Texas is a separate market (and really a separate culture) from the old south region where Vandy's name is most inflated (and I don't mean inflated in a bad way.. just where their prestige is highest).

Trill

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Re: Cornell or Vandy or TX, What would you do???
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2008, 02:45:23 PM »
Absolutely nobody said Vandy grads couldn't get Texas.  All anybody is arguing is that Texas gives you better opportunities in Texas, even if it doesn't outside Texas.  Region is important, even for the bottom of the top 14. Of course students from well respected schools CAN expand to other regions, but we are discussing what schools gives you the best chance.  And no, for the purposes of this discussion, Texas and Vandy are not in the same region.  Texas is a separate market (and really a separate culture) from the old south region where Vandy's name is most inflated (and I don't mean inflated in a bad way.. just where their prestige is highest).

And I'd like to see where the data comes from that supports this argument.

Just because University of Texas is IN Texas, and is the best school in Texas, does not mean that it necessarily places better than Vandy in Texas.

My belief is that they place similarly in Texas due to the NLJ placements statistics. Though, obviously I cannot be sure because they may not be representative. Vandy, like Texas, is a semi-national school and can reach many different markets. It's not as though Vandy or Texas grads are limited to their specific region, only that their graduates tend to gravitate towards their respective regions.

BigTex firms don't consider UT = HYS, despite what people may be led to believe. Top 25% gets Baker Botts from UT. BigTex firms are huge prestige whores and they care about school and class rank.



Re: Cornell or Vandy or TX, What would you do???
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2008, 03:17:08 PM »
Thanks for all the responses everyone. I appreciate it.

As for my feelings towards the various schools, I really liked Texas and everyone was nice, but I felt like I was trying to make myself like it. I also got a sense that the bottom half of the class was struggling to find good jobs.

As for Vandy, my main reason for attending there would be the financial situation I would be in when graduating. In comparison to Texas I thought Vandy was about the same. I wouldn't want to be at the bottom half of either though. They are both nice schools, and I could be happy at either.

As for Cornell, I really liked it because it was sooo different, and I think it would expand my world view. In terms of prestige, am I mistaken in thinking that it is significantly more pretigious than the other two because of its Ivey League affiliation? I kind of get that sense after reading everyone else's posts. Also, I thought Cornell was one of those schools that if you just graduate (unless you are in the bottom 10% or something) you are likely to get a top paying job. Is this right or wrong?

Quail!

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Re: Cornell or Vandy or TX, What would you do???
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2008, 03:28:42 PM »
In terms of prestige, am I mistaken in thinking that it is significantly more pretigious than the other two

No, you are not

Also, I thought Cornell was one of those schools that if you just graduate (unless you are in the bottom 10% or something) you are likely to get a top paying job. Is this right or wrong?

Mostly right (bottom 25% might have some difficulty)

Re: Cornell or Vandy or TX, What would you do???
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2008, 03:43:52 PM »
Are you seriously arguing that region doesn't matter? Are you seriously arguing that firms don't prefer in state schools when the schools have virtually the same reputation? Just saying "let me see the data" doesn't work, because, as has been stated many times on this board, the NLJ data has major flaws, which are amplified when you're not talking about New York/D.C./Chicago/California. The "data" you are grasping for doesn't exist, for your argument or for mine. I told you WHY firms will pick the in state school every time if credentials and school reputation are otherwise close. Can you tell me why they wouldn't? You seem to be under the impression that Vandy has a better reputation than Texas just because it is ranked slightly higher, but this is not the case. If anything Texas is higher, as it is more of a traditional power. If Vandy continues its surge they may pass Texas eventually, but at the moment the schools are essentially even in terms of prestige and respectability. And don't worry, I don't have a Texas avatar, I didn't even apply there.  Also, just to shoot down this pretty little straw man people keep throwing out for the third time, nobody said Vandy grads COULDN'T go to Texas. We are talking in degrees here.

Also, as to the cost, since the OP is in state Vandy would actually cost significantly more.  Texas in state tuition is only 20k per year. Vandy's tuition is 39k.

Trill

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Re: Cornell or Vandy or TX, What would you do???
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2008, 03:55:24 PM »
Are you seriously arguing that region doesn't matter? Are you seriously arguing that firms don't prefer in state schools when the schools have virtually the same reputation? Just saying "let me see the data" doesn't work, because, as has been stated many times on this board, the NLJ data has major flaws, which are amplified when you're not talking about New York/D.C./Chicago/California. The "data" you are grasping for doesn't exist, for your argument or for mine.

I'm arguing that at a certain level, region doesn't matter. Semi-national schools like Vandy and UT it doesn't matter. UT will place in NYC just fine, and so will Vandy. I have no reason to believe Texas would be much different. I don't see the portability of either school presenting an issue.

Region matters for more "regional" schools. Not Top 15/16 schools (for the most part). Schools ranked beyond the top 20 are far more regional. For instance, if you were deciding between Iowa or University of Houston and you wanted to work in Houston, then UH would be the obvious choice.

 
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I told you WHY firms will pick the in state school every time if credentials and school reputation are otherwise close. Can you tell me why they wouldn't?

Diversity of hiring class. Vanderbilt grad interviewed better than UT grad. At a certain level, when things are so nearly equal, decisions will likely not necessarily be made on which school you went to, but rather whether or not they like you in an interview (grades/rank being equal).


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You seem to be under the impression that Vandy has a better reputation than Texas just because it is ranked slightly higher, but this is not the case.

I never made the suggestion that Vandy had a better reputation than Texas just because it's ranked higher. The rankings fluctuate. But Vandy and Texas are ranked so similar that I don't believe it's really valid to say that one school has a much better reputation over the other.

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If anything Texas is higher, as it is more of a traditional power.

Err....ok?

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If Vandy continues its surge they may pass Texas eventually, but at the moment the schools are essentially even in terms of prestige and respectability. And don't worry, I don't have a Texas avatar, I didn't even apply there.  Also, just to shoot down this pretty little straw man people keep throwing out for the third time, nobody said Vandy grads COULDN'T go to Texas. We are talking in degrees here.

And to what degree is that Texas JD going to help over a Vanderbilt JD that wants to work in Texas? It probably isn't statistically significant. Again, it'll come down to how well a candidate interviews if grades/rank are the same.

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Also, as to the cost, since the OP is in state Vandy would actually cost significantly more.  Texas in state tuition is only 20k per year. Vandy's tuition is 39k.

You'd have to take that up with the OP. He's managed to run the finance calculations and has come to a different conclusion. I don't know all the details about his scholarship conditions and he's factored cost of living into his analysis.