Law School Discussion

What do you do when you get denied by every school you applied to??!

Hank Rearden

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Re: What do you do when you get denied by every school you applied to??!
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2007, 12:55:28 PM »
Bump...inspirational thread.... :)



lol... this thread was so long ago... i'm amazed it is still around!! Reading it almost brings tears to my eyes.  I'm happy that my story has been so inspirational to them.... I wish all of you luck in your up in comming cycle and hope that you all have the success that I'v had.

Low LSAT means nothing.!! my LSGPA is now a 3.2! top 1/3 of the class!! Beat kids who got over a 160 on the LSAT.. So again! the LSAT MEANS NOTHING!! IT IS JUST A STUPID WAY FOR SCHOOLS TO SEPARATE STUDENTS!! gOOD LUCK TO ALL!!

No wonder you did poorly on the LSAT.  What makes you think that you can draw a reasonable conclusion about the correlation between LSAT scores and law school success based on one person's experience? 

Feeling sad because you're afraid your 171 won't guarantee you a spot on law review?

LSAT isn't considered for law review apps?

 ???

Denny Crane

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Re: What do you do when you get denied by every school you applied to??!
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2007, 12:58:51 PM »
LSAT isn't considered for law review apps?

 ???

If only.


Though I have heard of certain law firms asking for LSAT scores, regardless of which schools they went to.

Hank Rearden

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Re: What do you do when you get denied by every school you applied to??!
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2007, 01:01:59 PM »
LSAT isn't considered for law review apps?

 ???

If only.


Though I have heard of certain law firms asking for LSAT scores, regardless of which schools they went to.

Perhaps as a proxy for intelligence, since they can't ask for IQ tests?

Denny Crane

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Re: What do you do when you get denied by every school you applied to??!
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2007, 01:06:32 PM »
LSAT isn't considered for law review apps?

 ???

If only.


Though I have heard of certain law firms asking for LSAT scores, regardless of which schools they went to.

Perhaps as a proxy for intelligence, since they can't ask for IQ tests?

Possible.  I think this happens more for people applying for 1L summer associate positions since you wouldn't have had too much time to develop a consistent academic record. 

Re: What do you do when you get denied by every school you applied to??!
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2007, 10:05:16 PM »
Bump...inspirational thread.... :)



lol... this thread was so long ago... i'm amazed it is still around!! Reading it almost brings tears to my eyes.  I'm happy that my story has been so inspirational to them.... I wish all of you luck in your up in comming cycle and hope that you all have the success that I'v had.

Low LSAT means nothing.!! my LSGPA is now a 3.2! top 1/3 of the class!! Beat kids who got over a 160 on the LSAT.. So again! the LSAT MEANS NOTHING!! IT IS JUST A STUPID WAY FOR SCHOOLS TO SEPARATE STUDENTS!! gOOD LUCK TO ALL!!

No wonder you did poorly on the LSAT.  What makes you think that you can draw a reasonable conclusion about the correlation between LSAT scores and law school success based on one person's experience? 

Feeling sad because you're afraid your 171 won't guarantee you a spot on law review?

What does my previous post have to do with the law review?  I thought he drew an unwarranted conclusion, and got a little too excited about being so wrong.  Do you agree with him that there is no correlation between LSAT scores and law school success?  Do you think that one person's experience is enough evidence to draw such a conclusion?

I don't think my LSAT score guarantees me anything.  If I get a spot on law review, it will be because I worked hard and wrote well.

Re: What do you do when you get denied by every school you applied to??!
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2007, 10:21:36 PM »
Bump...inspirational thread.... :)



lol... this thread was so long ago... i'm amazed it is still around!! Reading it almost brings tears to my eyes.  I'm happy that my story has been so inspirational to them.... I wish all of you luck in your up in comming cycle and hope that you all have the success that I'v had.

Low LSAT means nothing.!! my LSGPA is now a 3.2! top 1/3 of the class!! Beat kids who got over a 160 on the LSAT.. So again! the LSAT MEANS NOTHING!! IT IS JUST A STUPID WAY FOR SCHOOLS TO SEPARATE STUDENTS!! gOOD LUCK TO ALL!!

No wonder you did poorly on the LSAT.  What makes you think that you can draw a reasonable conclusion about the correlation between LSAT scores and law school success based on one person's experience? 


Now now, ender, you're bigger than that...   ;)

<----apologizes and humbly asks for forgiveness.  I was actually trying to be funny, but it didn't really come off that way. 

Re: What do you do when you get denied by every school you applied to??!
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2007, 01:23:44 PM »
Matthies, you raise some interesting points. Beyond merely studying potential correlations between amount of test prep and LS grades, I think the LSAT is due for an overhaul (not the minor "comprehensive reading" changes they've made for the next round of tests). I think the"standardization" conceit needs to be problematized and re-interpreted. Whenever I talk to people from other countries, they express disbelief over "the American system" of standardized multiple choice tests (I elected not to shock them further with the idea of 'Christmas Tree-ing' a test). Many countries' medical, law and other professional schools rely much more heavily on essay-writing, which both they and I believe can shed a lot more light on an applicant's thought processes, style of analysis, etc.

Essays exams--for example, the AP tests in English Lit or Composition--can be pretty standardized with the use of the same questions for all applicants (they've already eliminated the choice of essays on the new LSAT, from what I've heard), a limited time frame, etc. Graders can be instructed to overlook spelling and grammar and award points using a rubric of sorts that emphasizes analytical pattern, argument making, use of supporting evidence/argument, etc. There can be two or more essay-graders for each essay and rules can be made about averaging the graders' marks if they differ more than, say, two letter /numerical points. And, like an AP Lit exam, a "standard" score can be arrived at.

Admissions committees would not have access to the scored/graded essays like they do with the current unscored ones, because they may unconsciously favor applicants with better spelling/grammar and more sophisticated writing skills.

In fact, I know from experience (a free Law School prep class offered as a promo for a company) that a person who has never been to law school can attempt to write a law-school-type exam based on scenarios, spotting issues, etc. by making use of a simplified list of black letter law pertaining to the essay question's scenario and provided alongside the question. In my proposed system, graders would obviously not expect test-takers to know how to take a law school exam proper; I just want to emphasize that an essay LSAT can be administered in a way that gives a better idea of individual analytical strengths than the current multiple choice system alone. 

Also, to address your point of test prep, I think essays would narrow the gap between those who prepared and those who didn't. The Logic Games, for example, seem to scare a lot of people off the test because they are so different from what most people have experienced in most undergrad exams or courses of study. But we all know that learning a "system" to navigate the games (through an LSAT course or a good book) can dramatically improve a person's games scores. This is where I think your "test prep" argument really holds up.

By giving far more weight to scored essays than to Games, the proposed LSAT could ameliorate the current favoring of "test-preppers" (especially Testmasters, Kaplan, etc. formal courses) over those who could only afford to work through a 25 dollar book or CD ROM on their own.

Re: What do you do when you get denied by every school you applied to??!
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2007, 07:37:35 PM »
Bump...inspirational thread.... :)



lol... this thread was so long ago... i'm amazed it is still around!! Reading it almost brings tears to my eyes.  I'm happy that my story has been so inspirational to them.... I wish all of you luck in your up in comming cycle and hope that you all have the success that I'v had.

Low LSAT means nothing.!! my LSGPA is now a 3.2! top 1/3 of the class!! Beat kids who got over a 160 on the LSAT.. So again! the LSAT MEANS NOTHING!! IT IS JUST A STUPID WAY FOR SCHOOLS TO SEPARATE STUDENTS!! gOOD LUCK TO ALL!!

Thanks, and I'm glad things have worked out well for you in law school, thanks to your hard work!

Hopefully this thread can give some perspective to others trying to overcome similar odds... :)

KD03

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Re: What do you do when you get denied by every school you applied to??!
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2007, 01:08:35 PM »
Matthies, you raise some interesting points. Beyond merely studying potential correlations between amount of test prep and LS grades, I think the LSAT is due for an overhaul (not the minor "comprehensive reading" changes they've made for the next round of tests). I think the"standardization" conceit needs to be problematized and re-interpreted. Whenever I talk to people from other countries, they express disbelief over "the American system" of standardized multiple choice tests (I elected not to shock them further with the idea of 'Christmas Tree-ing' a test). Many countries' medical, law and other professional schools rely much more heavily on essay-writing, which both they and I believe can shed a lot more light on an applicant's thought processes, style of analysis, etc.

Essays exams--for example, the AP tests in English Lit or Composition--can be pretty standardized with the use of the same questions for all applicants (they've already eliminated the choice of essays on the new LSAT, from what I've heard), a limited time frame, etc. Graders can be instructed to overlook spelling and grammar and award points using a rubric of sorts that emphasizes analytical pattern, argument making, use of supporting evidence/argument, etc. There can be two or more essay-graders for each essay and rules can be made about averaging the graders' marks if they differ more than, say, two letter /numerical points. And, like an AP Lit exam, a "standard" score can be arrived at.

Admissions committees would not have access to the scored/graded essays like they do with the current unscored ones, because they may unconsciously favor applicants with better spelling/grammar and more sophisticated writing skills.

In fact, I know from experience (a free Law School prep class offered as a promo for a company) that a person who has never been to law school can attempt to write a law-school-type exam based on scenarios, spotting issues, etc. by making use of a simplified list of black letter law pertaining to the essay question's scenario and provided alongside the question. In my proposed system, graders would obviously not expect test-takers to know how to take a law school exam proper; I just want to emphasize that an essay LSAT can be administered in a way that gives a better idea of individual analytical strengths than the current multiple choice system alone. 

Also, to address your point of test prep, I think essays would narrow the gap between those who prepared and those who didn't. The Logic Games, for example, seem to scare a lot of people off the test because they are so different from what most people have experienced in most undergrad exams or courses of study. But we all know that learning a "system" to navigate the games (through an LSAT course or a good book) can dramatically improve a person's games scores. This is where I think your "test prep" argument really holds up.

By giving far more weight to scored essays than to Games, the proposed LSAT could ameliorate the current favoring of "test-preppers" (especially Testmasters, Kaplan, etc. formal courses) over those who could only afford to work through a 25 dollar book or CD ROM on their own.


I think the use of essay grading would be hopelessly subjective and inconsistent.  It would also tend to reward those with better overall education (in forming arguments, writing generally, etc.).  At least the LSAT (and other standardized tests) can ID aptitude even where little or no training has occurred.

God - can you imagine how long it would take LSAC to get scores out if the writing section were graded? heinous, heinous suggestion. The thing should be removed from the test altogether.

Re: What do you do when you get denied by every school you applied to??!
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2013, 07:12:18 PM »
Kaplan is an awful test prep. Try a different test prep company after researching how others feel about it and retake.
Anything below a 150 is not going to do you any good unless your a URM.

Keep your head up and try again.