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Author Topic: Congratulations Conndi!  (Read 2709 times)

lex19

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Re: Congratulations Conndi!
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2005, 01:43:42 PM »
yup

Sands could you explain your problems with Condi's views on black america.

Certainly.

Condi Rice rice does not support the Black community or what it stands for.  Condi Rice has achieved a great deal for any person, irrespective of race. Graduated college when she was 19, interned for the white house, ran a few corporations and not to mention she was Stanford's provost for a number of years.  I'm not knocking her academic or professional achievements at all.  They are something to aspire to.

However, like many black conservatives in her position, her view is very narrow and very conveniently tailored to suggest that just because she has made it, all other black people "should" make it.  In essence, her understanding is flawed by virtue of inductive reasoning.  What's true for a few does not = true for all. And the republicans hold her up like a beacon of truth as if to say "if she can do it, there's no reason why you can't you lazy porch monkeys."  Of course she made it to college, she comes from a third generation college educated family.  Why wouldn't she go to college with that road map available?  But many of the members of the BSLD here, who I consider to be very progressive in seeking a law degree, do not share that same luxury.  In fact, many of us are the first members of our family to even make it past high school.  Unless your family is from ATL or DC, the far majority of Blacks in this country do not come from 3rd generation college educated families.  But moving beyond that point, that's not the true problem with Rice.

The true problem with Rice is that she denounces that racism exists or had the ability to hinder her progress in life, and she is avidly opposed to government intervention in civil rights or discrimination, affirmative action programs, etc...YET ironically it was that same government intervention that allowed her to get to where she is today by way of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Brown v. Topeka Board of Education, executive orders prohibiting segregation in all areas of life, including education, etc.  Rice may have been born in Alabama, but she went to school in Denver, Colorado, away from the jim crow laws of the south.  She was afforded that opportunity, and that's great for her, but again inductively speaking, her life story is not representative of the black community as she might insist.  She has clearly demonstrated that she is detached from what it means to be apart of the black community.



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Re: Congratulations Conndi!
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2005, 01:55:52 PM »
hey I don't agree with most of Condi's political views, but I'm not going to knock her.  I think as a community we have to get past looking at all dissenters as traitors; we could use a little ideological diversity.

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Re: Congratulations Conndi!
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2005, 02:04:52 PM »
yup

Sands could you explain your problems with Condi's views on black america.

Certainly.

Condi Rice rice does not support the Black community or what it stands for.  Condi Rice has achieved a great deal for any person, irrespective of race. Graduated college when she was 19, interned for the white house, ran a few corporations and not to mention she was Stanford's provost for a number of years.  I'm not knocking her academic or professional achievements at all.  They are something to aspire to.

However, like many black conservatives in her position, her view is very narrow and very conveniently tailored to suggest that just because she has made it, all other black people "should" make it.  In essence, her understanding is flawed by virtue of inductive reasoning.  What's true for a few does not = true for all. And the republicans hold her up like a beacon of truth as if to say "if she can do it, there's no reason why you can't you lazy porch monkeys."  Of course she made it to college, she comes from a third generation college educated family.  Why wouldn't she go to college with that road map available?  But many of the members of the BSLD here, who I consider to be very progressive in seeking a law degree, do not share that same luxury.  In fact, many of us are the first members of our family to even make it past high school.  Unless your family is from ATL or DC, the far majority of Blacks in this country do not come from 3rd generation college educated families.  But moving beyond that point, that's not the true problem with Rice.

The true problem with Rice is that she denounces that racism exists or had the ability to hinder her progress in life, and she is avidly opposed to government intervention in civil rights or discrimination, affirmative action programs, etc...YET ironically it was that same government intervention that allowed her to get to where she is today by way of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Brown v. Topeka Board of Education, executive orders prohibiting segregation in all areas of life, including education, etc.  Rice may have been born in Alabama, but she went to school in Denver, Colorado, away from the jim crow laws of the south.  She was afforded that opportunity, and that's great for her, but again inductively speaking, her life story is not representative of the black community as she might insist.  She has clearly demonstrated that she is detached from what it means to be apart of the black community.



While she is in my opinion still the most powerful woman on I do concur with sands in regards to his views on rice. A lot of it though is simply her quarantine fromm the black people you are describing. It is a shame sands that what you said is true. However it is unusual to be a first generation high school graduate and become secretary of state. I'm just raising a question here, assuming to get to a position like her's usually takes the effort of multiple generations, (Kennedy, Bush) do you feel that her opinions are uncommon among people in her situation. By her situation I mean never exposed to the social problems that you mention in your post. I was raised in D.C. and my father went to Georgetown Medical. I don't consider myself as conservative as condelezza, espcially on social issues but I do have multiple conservative views in regards to economics and foreign policy. What I'm getting at is. When someone gets to that point do you think it is likely they will think any different. Regardless of wether or not you think its right or wrong
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Re: Congratulations Conndi!
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2005, 02:05:57 PM »
hey I don't agree with most of Condi's political views, but I'm not going to knock her. I think as a community we have to get past looking at all dissenters as traitors; we could use a little ideological diversity.

I agree. I dont feel her opinions warrant her to be deemed as Hitler. that is somewhat extreme.
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Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them..  The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.

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Re: Congratulations Conndi!
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2005, 02:10:39 PM »
hey I don't agree with most of Condi's political views, but I'm not going to knock her. I think as a community we have to get past looking at all dissenters as traitors; we could use a little ideological diversity.

I agree. I dont feel her opinions warrant her to be deemed as Hitler. that is somewhat extreme.

I was thinking that it was only going to be a minute before someone said that Sands was comparing her to Hitler. 
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Re: Congratulations Conndi!
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2005, 02:14:23 PM »
hey I don't agree with most of Condi's political views, but I'm not going to knock her. I think as a community we have to get past looking at all dissenters as traitors; we could use a little ideological diversity.

I agree. I dont feel her opinions warrant her to be deemed as Hitler. that is somewhat extreme.

I was thinking that it was only going to be a minute before someone said that Sands was comparing her to Hitler.

.......It was a blatant analogly
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Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them..  The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.

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Re: Congratulations Conndi!
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2005, 02:17:32 PM »
well Super, you did say she decides who will starve, live or die, or whose country will be invaded.  ;D I guess if you are the invadee you will deem her hitleresque.

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Re: Congratulations Conndi!
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2005, 02:38:32 PM »
LOL! ok enough already with the hitler-isms.  Bad example.  The rule of law I was trying to convey there was that accomplished does not mean bona fide.

Super - I'm glad that you concur and you are correct, what I am describing is her personal detachment from the black community.  Ideological diversity is one thing, but detachment is a completely different matter.

To answer you question, if I'm hearing you correctly, you're asking if blacks who have risen to the level of condi rice will always have that type of viewpoint?  To answer that, I'll first start by pointing out that it takes absolutely no level of political successs to share condi's perspective on the black community.  All it takes is growing up in a sheltered environment.  So her detachment and her accomplishment are not dependent of each other.

Secondly, we must consider if the converse is true.  Must those who have ascended to the hights of political power view the black community through right wing goggles in order to get to where they are at?  I think not.  We only need to mention a few good examples like Obama and Thurgood to weaken that argument.  Just because you've "made it" as a black professional doesn't mean you have to view all others as lazy if they don't make it like you did.  Being in touch with the black community in these situtations only requires that you step outside of yourself for 5 seconds and take a look around at your brothers and sisters. 

Therefore, since its neither a prerequisite for political power, nor a dependant variable associated with political power, we must conclude that it is merely a matter of personal preference and personal perspective.  Condi feels that way because she feels that way.  She doesn't have to be that way, nor was it mandatory that she feel that way in order to achieve political success.  Political success in the Bush Administration, yes, but not political success in and of itself.
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Re: Congratulations Conndi!
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2005, 02:58:33 PM »
Nupe, well said.


I would just like to point out that like when Thurgood Marshall, MLK, Dubois, and all of the like were coming up they did not agree in the same ways black conservatives and democrats do now. I do not think because someone’s views are different that they don't have the interest of the community in mind. The difference now is that the two parties are not debating each other like they did then, their needs to be dialogue. I believe that if you are working in the public interest as a black person, it is your duty to explain and defend your views to the black community. This is where my problem with people like Condi come in. You can not have non main stream views and not explain those views to and debate other black leaders. This is what shows that she is out of touch. If you truly care about a community, than you want to be affirmed and understood by the community in which you serve. This is what shows that you are truly working with that community’s interest in mind.

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Re: Congratulations Conndi!
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2005, 03:03:56 PM »
hey I don't agree with most of Condi's political views, but I'm not going to knock her. I think as a community we have to get past looking at all dissenters as traitors; we could use a little ideological diversity.

I agree. I dont feel her opinions warrant her to be deemed as Hitler. that is somewhat extreme.

I was thinking that it was only going to be a minute before someone said that Sands was comparing her to Hitler.

.......It was a blatant analogly


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8646426/

T.O. compares himself to ... Jesus

"I don't have to worry about what people think of me, whether they hate me or not. People hated on Jesus. They threw stones at him and tried to kill him, so how can I complain or worry about what people think?"

-
Good post Sand, and you made some interesting posts as well Super.  

An anology is just that though Superdoc.  I posted that link about T.O because when someone makes an anology of that sort it does not equal a comparison i.e it's like saying that the relationship between A and B parallels the relationship between C and D.  This really does not compare A to C or make any claims about that relationship.  See what I mean?  I think this is a cognitive error people make, and I actually emailed the guy that wrote that article about T.O, that's why this jumped out at me.

Okay, carry on with the good discussion.



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