Homosexual PS

[Denny Crane]

I wholeheartedly agree that putting together a diverse class (with a diversity that reaches beyond simple racial or ethnic diversity) should be a goal of all law schools, however I question the policy of active recruitment of gays and lesbians in law school simply because it can be so easily manipulated.  Homosexuality cannot be verified, nor can anyone ask anyone else to "prove" their homosexuality.  And even if a student outs themselves on their application, there is no way that the school can release that information to anyone else, which means that someone can identify themselves as gay on their application, while remaining "straight" in practice once they matriculate.  I am curious how schools that actively recruit LGBT students go about ensuring that no one abuses that policy.

[SkullTatt]

Well, considering that you can get kicked out of law school for lying on your application, that is a pretty strong incentive not to lie. Simply saying you are gay on your application, if you are not, might become uncomfortable if you wind up on a school's list of students who self-identified as gay, and you begin getting invited to LGBT group meetings, or run into a professor who happens to have been told you are openly gay and invites you to participate in some gay-oriented school activity. What are you going to do then?

Anyway, I don't think anybody expects to throw "by the way, I'm gay" into their application and expect to get URM consideration. My original post was about whether to talk about gay-related community work (or jobs) and risk discrimination in the application process, because there are tons of people who hide behind religion to justify their anti-gay position in this country who would never dream of announcing that they were openly prejudiced in any other way. So, the question of whether to "out" yourself in the application process is a critical issue that gay students need to think about.

[Denny Crane]

Well, considering that you can get kicked out of law school for lying on your application, that is a pretty strong incentive not to lie. Simply saying you are gay on your application, if you are not, might become uncomfortable if you wind up on a school's list of students who self-identified as gay, and you begin getting invited to LGBT group meetings, or run into a professor who happens to have been told you are openly gay and invites you to participate in some gay-oriented school activity. What are you going to do then?

I am a hispanic student, and from the moment I got on campus I began receiving emails about all the hispanic activities and clubs and support groups, and it was incredibly easy for me to decline those invitations and remove myself from those email lists.  I think the same could be done for someone indicating that they are homosexual anywhere on their application.  My main point is that it is extremely difficult to catch someone in a lie about homosexuality.  Just because they do not go out with someone of the same gender, it does not necessarily follow that they are not gay.  I agree that it is highly unlikely for someone to falsely declare their homosexuality on their apps, but the possibility exists, and if schools begin attaching admissions boosts to homosexual applicants, I think false claims will rise.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I just don't think there's enough of a bonus that someone would lie about it... I can't imagine that it's that much of a boost, and like Bonkers said, the effect could be negative or positive, it's hard to say.

Even if the adcomm member isn't openly prejudiced (and my guess would be that most aren't), knowing that an applicant is gay may conjure certain stereotypes which can negatively affect an application (for example that a queer woman will be tactless and militant, or that a queer man will be frivolous and shallow). 

Also, in one respect, the adcomm may not really care if you're "really" gay/bi/queer/trans/whatever.  If they care to publish a percentage of students who self identify, they can do that regardless of whether it's "true" (personally, I think the exact nature of orientation is more complicated than queer or not queer, but that's neither here nor there).

[SkullTatt]

My main point is that it is extremely difficult to catch someone in a lie about homosexuality.

Based on what? Have you tried?

I agree that it is highly unlikely for someone to falsely declare their homosexuality on their apps, but the possibility exists, and if schools begin attaching admissions boosts to homosexual applicants, I think false claims will rise.

As Ronald Reagan would say, there you go again. Didn't I just say this whole thread was not about gays trying to get URM consideration, it's about deciding whether to face possible discrimination in the applciation process? Are you that fixated on the fear that gays and lesbians might -- God forbid -- get an admissions boost because of the prejudice they face in their daily lives? I wouldn't worry about it, we live in a pretty homophobic country so you are safe for now.

[e307515]

Well personally, I'm just hoping I get an adcom that thinks lesbian = hot porno girl on girl action, and lets me in on that basis.

haha me too

[heybrent]

It was King & Spaulding, and here is the webpage:

http://www.kslaw.com/diversity/sexual.asp

i'm from atlanta also.  K & S is the biggest law firm here, the ATL is their headquarters.  they do have AA for gays, although not a very good quality of life reputation.  Alston + Bird is the other big firm in town, they are apparently even friendlier to gays, and have a similar diversity/lgbt organization that they promote. in either case, you have to have strong grades at a top tier to be considered, but the gay card can apparently help you get your foot in the door.

i'm shooting for HLS, but Emory is a safety.  and if i wanted to stay in atlanta and do biglaw those would be my target firms.

[mto83]

I know no one has talked about this in awhile, but I will bring it up again because it is fresh on my mind.

I hopes it helps...I think I had a good statement: Contrasting my Asian, catholic upbringing with who I am, not only as a gay person but as a person who let go of my upbringing without letting go of the core principles. Then I talk about how working at a LGBT legal non-profit made me want to go to law school.

I think I would trump someone with similar numbers that the LS would consider anyway, but Harvard wouldn't admit based on my love for men. There are other smarter, gay people out there.

[odaiko]

Is that really your pic, mto83? I couldn't go to school with you... too distracting. 

Anyways, here's my two cents on this subject. When visiting some T14 schools this fall, I set up meetings with each school's GLBT student organization. Although individual experiences varied, the common thread I noticed was that GLBT students at each school are putting a lot of pressure on school administrators to recruit and admit openly GLBT students. I can't tell you whether the administrators care or not, but the mere fact that current, tuition-paying students are injecting GLBT issues and advocacy into the minds of admissions officers/faculty gave me good reason to out myself in my PS. It also gave me hope that a potentially conservative school, like U of Chicago, could find some "sparkle" in a proud, thoughtful gay person who might not have the school's ideal stats.

Also, for the people who said there are a lot of openly gay people at the top law schools: I have DEFINITELY not found that to be the case in the midwestern T14 schools I have visited. We're still pretty exotic at some top schools.

Okay, I'm an LSD virgin.. be gentle.

[mto83]

odaiko, sorry that is me. i will try to not to go to the same school as you then. i wouldn't want you to do badly in school.  maybe i should send the adcomm my pic. lol!

take a look at my LSN link. check out my numbers and tell me if it is even worth my time to try to apply to a t14 school. i doubt they will want a homo badly enough that they would take my numbers. anxiety happens--then questions are missed. what can you do?

everyone that has read my personal statement thinks it is incredibly compelling, even strangers. so fingers crossed that it will get me into a decent enough school with my numbers.