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Author Topic: Affirmative action = bullsh*t  (Read 41762 times)

Nemesis

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Re: Affirmative action = bullsh*t
« Reply #100 on: July 21, 2005, 02:25:19 PM »
My husband is getting his masters in elementary ed.  When he graduates and becomes certified, where do you think he'd rather work?  In a school in urban Wilmington that should have been condemned 10 years ago or 20 miles down the road in Hockessen, with modern, beautiful facilities.  If you don't make the workplace attractive and comfortable, you will not attract quality teachers.

Hubby just said to me, "School should be a kid's happy place.  His escape from a bad environment.  It shouldn't add to his problems." 

I just saw a news clip that U. DE was just given a $1.2 million grant to research underage drinking.  I think that money could have been better spent on renovating some of the public schools in Wilmington.


Or even 1% of the $400 billion spent on defense.
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ImVinny!

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Re: Affirmative action = bullsh*t
« Reply #101 on: July 21, 2005, 02:26:52 PM »
Well, if your husband is going to be a teacher and wants to actually MAKE a difference, maybe he SHOULD take a teaching job in one of the run-down schools. If teachers started showing an interest in these kids things may change.

twarga

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Re: Affirmative action = bullsh*t
« Reply #102 on: July 21, 2005, 02:31:07 PM »
My husband is getting his masters in elementary ed.  When he graduates and becomes certified, where do you think he'd rather work?  In a school in urban Wilmington that should have been condemned 10 years ago or 20 miles down the road in Hockessen, with modern, beautiful facilities.  If you don't make the workplace attractive and comfortable, you will not attract quality teachers.

Hubby just said to me, "School should be a kid's happy place.  His escape from a bad environment.  It shouldn't add to his problems." 

I just saw a news clip that U. DE was just given a $1.2 million grant to research underage drinking.  I think that money could have been better spent on renovating some of the public schools in Wilmington.


Or even 1% of the $400 billion spent on defense.

Or NASA... don't get me started.  And as a military member, I agree that there is a LOT of wasteful spending.  But you should see the Department of Defense schools.  They are an excellent model for what schools should be.  In fact, in some poor areas of the country with bad public schools (like near Little Rock AFB), the gov't has erected DoDD schools.  My kids spent 5 years in DoDD schools in Europe and received what would (I believe) surpass a private school education.  If only the government would DEMAND the same standards for every public school in the U.S., we would see some big changes in the urban landscape.
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ImVinny!

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Re: Affirmative action = bullsh*t
« Reply #103 on: July 21, 2005, 02:34:26 PM »
Well, education happens to be a state's issue. Maybe people should worry about their own state and where they are and need to be.

lsatlover

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Re: Affirmative action = bullsh*t
« Reply #104 on: July 21, 2005, 02:35:00 PM »
As people have stated before, AA is a temporary fix. The real, and more permanent solution lies in a revamping of the education system and ensuring that URMs and other stduents of disadvantaged backgrounds are able to access the same, high-quality education that are at the disposal of many other groups. But this is a long term objective that will take extensive work before it can be realized.

Please elaborate?  the methods you state of revamping the education system is more of an end goal than a solution.  Here is my method.

1) Anyone from a family with an income in excess of $300k can major in liberal arts, education, or philosophy
2) Anyone from a family with an income less than $300k must major in engineering, science, or business discipline.
3) Anyone from a family with an income of less than $20k will learn a trade to become an electrician or plumber, unless they can prove themselves in an aptitude test.

That means anyone from a middle or lower class background can't major in liberal arts, poli sci, sociology, african, asian or european studies.

The secret reason some minority groups prosper and others don't is the parents mandate they MUST get good grades and they WILL become a physician, engineer, or scientist.  business and law are lower on the totem pole.  yes it sounds draconian, but thats what my parents dictated and it seemed to work in my case.


I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. Are you suggesting we mandate that certain people follow certain routes/careers?

Some cultures place more emphasis and prestige on certain careers, I agree with that. But I believe it is best to expose a person to all the opportunities at their disposal and allow them to make the decision themselves. In order to make this truly egalitarian, however, we have to ensure that people are given that choice. The American school system, however, remains plagued by huge disparites. A student going to a school that lacks resources will inevitably develop a different perspective - which will inadvertently affect their view on what opportunities are at their disposal.

So in other words, society should provide young students (who have no real inkling of how the world operates) all the opportunities to make bad educational and career decisions, yet the students should be exonerated from the fact that society rewards certain careers more than others?

Unfortunately the statement 'some cultures place more emphasis on prestige and career' is an understatement.  The fact is that all of american society  places extreme emphasis on prestige and career.  That is the reason MDs and JDs make, on averge more than engineers in the U.S.  while in other countries engineers make more.  Our education system, is self serving in that it is most efficient for preparing students for academia.  Yes, most schools have career shadowing, however, given the magnitude of the decision little time is spent giving students life skills rather than useless theoreticial academic skills.

twarga

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Re: Affirmative action = bullsh*t
« Reply #105 on: July 21, 2005, 02:36:31 PM »
Well, if your husband is going to be a teacher and wants to actually MAKE a difference, maybe he SHOULD take a teaching job in one of the run-down schools. If teachers started showing an interest in these kids things may change.

It's a revolving argument.  Better teachers make better schools, and better schools attract better teachers.  It's a lot easier to fix up your school and lure good teachers than to expect them to suffer for the 'greater societal good.'  Especially when people like my husband believe that a clean, warm, dry environment is essential to learning and would be frustrated and angry working in dilapidated filth, where he'd probably have to buy all of his own classroom supplies from his own paycheck (which is no lawyer's salary).  The kids can't concentrate in that environment.  Fix the leaks, fill the cracks, exterminate the critters, slap on a fresh coat of paint and recarpet.  Set aside money for teaching aids and chalk.  Then you'll attract the teachers who want to work without unnecessary distraction.
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Nemesis

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Re: Affirmative action = bullsh*t
« Reply #106 on: July 21, 2005, 02:38:53 PM »
My husband is getting his masters in elementary ed.  When he graduates and becomes certified, where do you think he'd rather work?  In a school in urban Wilmington that should have been condemned 10 years ago or 20 miles down the road in Hockessen, with modern, beautiful facilities.  If you don't make the workplace attractive and comfortable, you will not attract quality teachers.

Hubby just said to me, "School should be a kid's happy place.  His escape from a bad environment.  It shouldn't add to his problems." 

I just saw a news clip that U. DE was just given a $1.2 million grant to research underage drinking.  I think that money could have been better spent on renovating some of the public schools in Wilmington.


Or even 1% of the $400 billion spent on defense.

Or NASA... don't get me started.  And as a military member, I agree that there is a LOT of wasteful spending.  But you should see the Department of Defense schools.  They are an excellent model for what schools should be.  In fact, in some poor areas of the country with bad public schools (like near Little Rock AFB), the gov't has erected DoDD schools.  My kids spent 5 years in DoDD schools in Europe and received what would (I believe) surpass a private school education.  If only the government would DEMAND the same standards for every public school in the U.S., we would see some big changes in the urban landscape.

twarga, you are quickly becoming my favorite LSDer  :D

I think it's unfortuante that this administration has had/chosen to pay so much attention to foreign affairs that our domestic policies are being neglected.
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lsatlover

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Re: Affirmative action = bullsh*t
« Reply #107 on: July 21, 2005, 02:41:16 PM »
Well, if your husband is going to be a teacher and wants to actually MAKE a difference, maybe he SHOULD take a teaching job in one of the run-down schools. If teachers started showing an interest in these kids things may change.

It's a revolving argument.  Better teachers make better schools, and better schools attract better teachers.  It's a lot easier to fix up your school and lure good teachers than to expect them to suffer for the 'greater societal good.'  Especially when people like my husband believe that a clean, warm, dry environment is essential to learning and would be frustrated and angry working in dilapidated filth, where he'd probably have to buy all of his own classroom supplies from his own paycheck (which is no lawyer's salary).  The kids can't concentrate in that environment.  Fix the leaks, fill the cracks, exterminate the critters, slap on a fresh coat of paint and recarpet.  Set aside money for teaching aids and chalk.  Then you'll attract the teachers who want to work without unnecessary distraction.


doesn't the fact that expectations by the parents and military school on the behavior and performance of the children weigh into the equation?

Nemesis

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Re: Affirmative action = bullsh*t
« Reply #108 on: July 21, 2005, 02:45:01 PM »
Well, education happens to be a state's issue. Maybe people should worry about their own state and where they are and need to be.

That's a whole other argument. The way the system works now, schools are funded by property tax. So, if you live in a better area, you pay more tax and enjoy better quality schools.

Interestingly enough, blacks tend to be extremely overrepresented in city public housing developments.

But like I said, that's a whole other argument.
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twarga

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Re: Affirmative action = bullsh*t
« Reply #109 on: July 21, 2005, 02:51:34 PM »
My husband is getting his masters in elementary ed.  When he graduates and becomes certified, where do you think he'd rather work?  In a school in urban Wilmington that should have been condemned 10 years ago or 20 miles down the road in Hockessen, with modern, beautiful facilities.  If you don't make the workplace attractive and comfortable, you will not attract quality teachers.

Hubby just said to me, "School should be a kid's happy place.  His escape from a bad environment.  It shouldn't add to his problems." 

I just saw a news clip that U. DE was just given a $1.2 million grant to research underage drinking.  I think that money could have been better spent on renovating some of the public schools in Wilmington.


Or even 1% of the $400 billion spent on defense.

Or NASA... don't get me started.  And as a military member, I agree that there is a LOT of wasteful spending.  But you should see the Department of Defense schools.  They are an excellent model for what schools should be.  In fact, in some poor areas of the country with bad public schools (like near Little Rock AFB), the gov't has erected DoDD schools.  My kids spent 5 years in DoDD schools in Europe and received what would (I believe) surpass a private school education.  If only the government would DEMAND the same standards for every public school in the U.S., we would see some big changes in the urban landscape.

twarga, you are quickly becoming my favorite LSDer  :D

I think it's unfortuante that this administration has had/chosen to pay so much attention to foreign affairs that our domestic policies are being neglected.

Thanks.  A lot of us military folks expressed our dissatisfaction with Bush at the polls last November.  Too bad he didn't have a stronger opponent.  However, I don't think you necessarily have to be a Democrat to push for social change.  If I am ever in a political position to make a difference, education will be at the very top of my list... and some nasty school buildings will be torn down and rebuilt.  Pronto!  Inner city kids should not have to flee to the suburbs via vouchers to get a quality education.  I think it sends the wrong message.  It says, "We've plucked you, you poor slob, out of the mire of your urban neighborhood and shipped you to the lily-white world of wonder and amazement."  It smacks of a handout and reinforces the idea that these kids aren't really good enough.  Let's make the inner-city schools a haven where these kids can get a quality education on their own turf.  It would instill a sense neighborhood pride in the students and their parents.
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