Should Republicans be drafted first?

[MustBMe]

I feel that the civility of this discussion is rapidly deteriorating (on both sides).  Can't we all just get along?   

Fuckgetting along

I've got two purple hearts Swordfish.  I also have two children who hardly know me b/c I've been gone so long.  You wanna talk sacrifice to me, boy?

And it's real easy to name call behind a keyboard.  That's why I don't do it.

[swordfish]

Mustbeme, I doubt you ever served, even if you did I doubt you fought.  So shutthefuckup!

[Tpie82]

I'm sorry you feel that our government has used our military terribly in the past.  Do you mind if I ask you for an example of two of what you're referring to?  It seems to me, if anything, people feel we don't use the military enough (ie Why haven't we invaded Cuba, North Korea, the Sudan, etc)

A few examples of the government abusing military power:
Manifest Destiny- Routing Indian tribes, taking New Mexico and California from Mexico and Florida from the Spanish (leaving harsh dictators in Cuba that caused problems for generations)

Countless Actions in Central/South America - Toppling governments that were not friendly to us (although this was not always the military per se, I believe the CIA helped to topple one of the regimes down there by themselves but this still goes to the heart of irresponsible use of government power)


Don't get me wrong, I am glad that the US has California etc, but there is no way that anyone can say that the governments motives are always pure.  With that in mind, I don't think that any responsibility falls on the soldiers for the government's mistakes, and that they are the bravest among us for fighting.  It is scary, however, to think that our population could become so nationalistic as to not question the government ever.  I saw someone on the thread say "I am glad soldiers defend the country so you can despise it."  That is a really poor response to someone raising serious issues.  Everyone who questions the government does not hate it, they are simply doing their jobs as informed citizens.

[swordfish]

I feel that the civility of this discussion is rapidly deteriorating (on both sides).  Can't we all just get along?   

Fuckgetting along

I've got two purple hearts Swordfish.  I also have two children who hardly know me b/c I've been gone so long.  You wanna talk sacrifice to me, boy?

And it's real easy to name call behind a keyboard.  That's why I don't do it.

Then get back over there.  Hurry go save the day tough guy.

[_BP_]

You see, I know how good it feels to be a part of something greater than myself.  To know that what I do truly matters.  To know that if I would have to sacrifice myself for my country, I'd be able to look God in the eye, knowing that there is no greater love than to lay down my life in defense of true liberty and freedom.

That kind of sentiment is very appealing, and I think, although it hasn't been put to the test, that if I believed that our military was something great and noble, and that our country was doing the right things for the right reasons, I would be willing to put my life on the line for that.  I might even be willing to put myself into a place where I would kill for that, though I'm not sure.

The problem is that I just don't have that kind of faith in our government, and its use of the military.  It's done too many terrible things in the past (as have most other governments; I'm not saying it's unique in that respect).  I wish I felt like our government was something I could trust and respect that much.

Exactly.  Good post. 

MustbMe, that was a great rehash of army recruiting/advertising material.  As for looking God in the eye...you feel that sacrificing yourself for America let's you look God in the eye, while others think that sacrificing themselves for their countries and causes make it easier for them to look their God in the eye.  In the end it's all rhetoric bull.  God, if he/she is out there, is for HUMANKIND, not just for humans that just happened to be born in a certain area code.  God is not an American.

BP,

I know you won't care, but I know several fine young men who died to help further democracy in other parts of the world.  They also died to help defend our Country and our Constitution, which guarantee your freedom of speach. 

I wish you could visit North Korea, the Middle East, and portions of Africa.  You do know that they still practice slavery in those parts of the world, right?  I know, I know, there's nothing special about America.....

You, I was tempted to go on a rant here, and tell you what I really thought about you, but considering that July 4th is just around the corner, I thought about something else instead.  How about you visit a VA hospital over the weekend.  Or, maybe, you visit a veterans cemetary and place a few small American flags on their graves.  Granted I know such actions are beneath you, considering they died for rhetoric bull....

Yea, why don't you print out what you just posted, stick it in the back of your pants pocket, and go do SOMETHING to thank a veteran.  Maybe, just maybe, you'll discover something about yourself in the process. 

God Bless America BP

I could care less what you think of me or if you choose to tell me or not.  HTH

It's interesting how you took my post and interpreted it as an anti-veteran, anti-soldier post.  When that isn't the case at all.  You've really learned to apply the Republican strategy well though, I'll give you that.  Note however, that the (you don't support our troops) b.s isn't going to work forever.  Give it up.  My post was about you invoking God.  Somehow you ignored that.

So let me get this straight BP, fighting for your country is rheotoric bull, those of us who do fight are and are proud of it and their country are just applying some sort of Republican strategy (as if we ever asked our buddies "so are you a Democrat or a Republican), but that not anti-veteran and anti-solder.  Whatever BP.  Happy 4th of July. 

Happy 4th of July to you too.  The Republican strategy I was referring to, is to distract people from the issues by invoking either God or "Support our troops".  As if people who disagree with the war support our troops any less.  That my friend, is the point I've been trying to make.  You are free to disagree.

[be10dwn]

Mustbeme, I doubt you ever served, even if you did I doubt you fought.  So shutthefuckup!

Alright man, since you can't play nice and debate like a normal human being, you have been reported.  Have a nice day

[swordfish]

Mustbeme, I doubt you ever served, even if you did I doubt you fought.  So shutthefuckup!

Alright man, since you can't play nice and debate like a normal human being, you have been reported.  Have a nice day

Wow you really are a tough guy. I've been reported, wow.

[The5thAce]

Mustbeme, I doubt you ever served, even if you did I doubt you fought.  So shutthefuckup!

Alright man, since you can't play nice and debate like a normal human being, you have been reported.  Have a nice day

Wow you really are a tough guy. I've been reported, wow.

Why do you feel compelled to insult so many people?  I will not say whether I agree or disagree with your position on the war; however, I believe that you are hurting your own arguments by virtue of the manner in which you present them.  I do not mean to insult you, but I decided to offer this unsolicited advice.  Use it as you will.

[mxpocc]

You see, I know how good it feels to be a part of something greater than myself.  To know that what I do truly matters.  To know that if I would have to sacrifice myself for my country, I'd be able to look God in the eye, knowing that there is no greater love than to lay down my life in defense of true liberty and freedom.

That kind of sentiment is very appealing, and I think, although it hasn't been put to the test, that if I believed that our military was something great and noble, and that our country was doing the right things for the right reasons, I would be willing to put my life on the line for that.  I might even be willing to put myself into a place where I would kill for that, though I'm not sure.

The problem is that I just don't have that kind of faith in our government, and its use of the military.  It's done too many terrible things in the past (as have most other governments; I'm not saying it's unique in that respect).  I wish I felt like our government was something I could trust and respect that much.

Hey Ms. Suger (presuming your female),

Granted, my job was to follow orders, not make policy decisions.  Still, none of us followed orders blindly.  If my conscience had ever bothered about what I was doing, I wouldn't've re upped twice.  And I can assure you that I follow my conscience as much as I can.  I also consider myself a good religious person, and believe that someday I'll have to answer for everything I've done.

I guess what bothers me is the presumption that the majority of the people were #1, poor, and #2, had no options other than join the military.  It makes it sound like we were just dumb fodder for the American military machine.  Of course we had some dim bulbs, but please tell me what large organization doesn't.

I'm not suggesting that there is some mystic nobility in being a member of the military.  I am saying that by far the main reason that the men and women who join it truly love their country and want to ensure that the God given opportunities and blessings that we have in the USA will still be there for our children and grandchildren.  Does anyone honestly believe that only 'dumb' and/or 'poor' people care about such things.

I can also honestly tell you that people like Julie Fern, with her "How Goes the Dirty Little War", is just a slap in the face to your American soldier.  I've been over there and let me tell you, the only "Dirty" thing going on are terrorists blowing up innocent people.  What the soldiers are doing, and more importantly, BELIEVE what we're doing, are routing out a rat's nest of terrorism.  Hopefully we're magnets for the terrorists so that the likelihood of such disgusting people committing such acts here are reduced.  None of us want to hurt of kill anyone, but, believe it or not, there is true evil in the world.  And there ultimately can only be one response to such matters.

I'm sorry you feel that our government has used our military terribly in the past.  Do you mind if I ask you for an example of two of what you're referring to?  It seems to me, if anything, people feel we don't use the military enough (ie Why haven't we invaded Cuba, North Korea, the Sudan, etc)

Anyway, if nothing else, I hope I engender a little more goodwill towards our service people.  They could really use it now.... more than ever.  It's a long fight ahead to protect this country.  Hell, I feel guilty for not still being out there.

 

Excellent post; it's a noble profession--but criticism of the politicians wielding the sword shouldn't be taken as criticism of the sword itself. I think people need to draw the line. When John Kerry says he disapproves of the war, he's not saying he disapproves of the military men fighting the war--for Christ's sake, he's saying those men don't deserve to die for unjust causes. I still don't understand how any military person can disagree with someone who is well intentioned on their behalf (even if it's indirectly so)

Finally, while a noble profession, it's not the ONLY noble profession available for an American to pursue; it's not the only cog in the wheel, and it, like many other professions, relies on a slew of other professions to even make it possible. Law is one of those professions.

What are militaries fighting for? A civilized country with its culture and way of life. What provides the infrastructure for that way of life--the very thing that, without which, a military would be a moot point? Law

Not that it's necessary to gas up a forum of future lawyers on the importance of their profession, but I think it's necessary to acknowledge the fact that other professions are, indeed, just as noble as that of the enlisted.

Also, if you wanted cookies, you should've stayed in kindergarten. I'd hope that our military people are emotionally strong enough to dismiss even direct criticism--not that I'd offer it, but honestly. If they're so convinced that the cause they fight for is just and correct, then criticism from Americans at home won't even phase them, right? If criticism bothers them, then it might suggest the possibility that they aren't fighting with their whole heart, and that would expose the very problem.

Criticism is necessary

[swordfish]

Mustbeme, I doubt you ever served, even if you did I doubt you fought.  So shutthefuckup!

Alright man, since you can't play nice and debate like a normal human being, you have been reported.  Have a nice day

What's wrong you can dish it out but not take it.  I'm not the only one slinging mud, I'm just the only one not complaining about it.