A Black Woman's View

[ImVinny!]

"but the system is made to allow the poorer class and poor URM to fail and keep them where they belong because everyone isn't provided with the same access as others."

You are saying that you should be allowed to fail, yet get in at a GREAT school? Makes no sense, why not NOT fail in the first place and show people what your scores ARE, and not argue where they SHOULD be.

[ImVinny!]

Alright, so today I was looking at lawschoolnumbers.com and I have to admit, I began to see why some people get so angry about the AA issue. How is it possible that a minority with a 3.3/161 can get into Harvard, Columbia, Georgetown and Stanford while a non-urm gets rejected with a 3.8/175? All I can say is that, although this IS unfair, it's the only solution the government has come up with to fix the obvious discrepancies. Whites and Minorities are not equal in this country so until we find some way to fix that (good luck), this is the only alternative. Although it's not a perfect system, what would you suggest we do?

Why cant black kids just go to the schools they are qualified for? If someone got a 157, why cant they just go to the 157 school? Why should they get into Columbia? I can give you many reasons why I think they should'nt, but im curious to know what you think about this. Are these people at Tier 3 and Tier 4 not real lawyers? If the real problem is not having enough lawyers in the legal profession, then having them go to Columbia instead of Cooley is not increasing that number, it is just putting them in a pond in which they are not equiped to swim in.

I agree with that one!

[CocoPuff]

"but the system is made to allow the poorer class and poor URM to fail and keep them where they belong because everyone isn't provided with the same access as others."

You are saying that you should be allowed to fail, yet get in at a GREAT school? Makes no sense, why not NOT fail in the first place and show people what your scores ARE, and not argue where they SHOULD be.

I don't know of any Black people who have failed and gotten into "GREAT" schools. Everyone who gets into Law School has shown and proved that they have the potential to do well there. T14s aren't picking random minorities to admit to their schools. They pick those whom they feel will add something to their school. If this means taking lower #'s in exchange for life experiences, so be it. They do this for non-URMs as well.

[alphadog24]

This is like when you ask Pres Bush why he went to war, and you keep getting a different answer everytime...

The stated objective/reasoning of AA is to "increase the number of under represented minorities in the legal profession." How does having someone go to Columbia instead of a lower school achieve that? I have seen evidence to the contrary. They have empirical data which shows that URMs which go to schools that are way above the ones they are qualified for flunk out at a much higher rate than those that go to the schools that are on par with their numbers. Thus, giving URMs a boost in admissions can actually lead to a REDUCTION in the overall URM presence in the legal profession.

There are alot more poor WHITE students who cannot afford to take the same prep tests as URMs, so that argument is invalid. You are saying URMs should go to better schools and get better jobs solely because they are URMs. Even when they are less qualified. Even when instead of brining races together, AA is fostering new animosity.

If they go to the schools they are qualified for, they will still be lawyers, and thus will be making more money than people who live in their "poor communities." And if this magical trickling down of success that is supposed to solve all the problems in the black community really works, then it will happen anyway, with or without the boost in admissions.

[ImVinny!]

Well, then you are naive. I know someone who got a 136 and is going to Minnesota, but I'm sure you'd say she must have proven herself somehow. Mm maybe that she can score really low, that's about it.

[CocoPuff]

Well, then you are naive. I know someone who got a 136 and is going to Minnesota, but I'm sure you'd say she must have proven herself somehow. Mm maybe that she can score really low, that's about it.

No, you can never be sure what I'd say. There are always exceptions. I don't know her or her situation so I decline to comment on that one.

[hammer101]

Well, then you are naive. I know someone who got a 136 and is going to Minnesota, but I'm sure you'd say she must have proven herself somehow. Mm maybe that she can score really low, that's about it.

That's suspect...a 136? I've never even heard of anyone scoring that low. 150s I'd buy....but 136 for  a t20? No way

[ImVinny!]

I am not kidding. The other schools she applied to were Notre DAme, Georgetown, GW, American, and others of that caliber. She was mad because none of the others accepted her, but she felt she would SETTLE with minnesota.

[CocoPuff]

This is like when you ask Pres Bush why he went to war, and you keep getting a different answer everytime...

The stated objective/reasoning of AA is to "increase the number of under represented minorities in the legal profession." How does having someone go to Columbia instead of a lower school achieve that? I have seen evidence to the contrary. They have empirical data which shows that URMs which go to schools that are way above the ones they are qualified for flunk out at a much higher rate than those that go to the schools that are on par with their numbers. Thus, giving URMs a boost in admissions can actually lead to a REDUCTION in the overall URM presence in the legal profession.

There are alot more poor WHITE students who cannot afford to take the same prep tests as URMs, so that argument is invalid. You are saying URMs should go to better schools and get better jobs solely because they are URMs. Even when they are less qualified. Even when instead of brining races together, AA is fostering new animosity.

If they go to the schools they are qualified for, they will still be lawyers, and thus will be making more money than people who live in their "poor communities." And if this magical trickling down of success that is supposed to solve all the problems in the black community really works, then it will happen anyway, with or without the boost in admissions.

My argument is valid in the sense that not all minorities, or white students for that matter, who are classified "unqualified" are, in fact, unqualified. They simply don't have the means of doing the things that will boost their #'s or their soft factors and make them more qualified. Therefore, their lower #'s don't always mean they will do poorly in or flunk out of law school.

I'm not saying that URMs should get into better schools simply because they are URMs, but the fact that they are in high demand in Law School is going to give them a boost.There's really no way around that.

As I've said before, AA masks the real problem and doesn't do much to fix the inequalities that exist, but there aren't really any suggestion as to how to go about fixing this problem in another way.

[CocoPuff]

I don't understand the socioeconomic argument.  When people say that they can't afford to boost their soft factors with unpaid internships and prep courses, then get a job.  If one job isn't cutting it then get a second.  I don't get why law schools should give handouts via admittance with low scores and free money to people too lazy to work.

It's not that people are too lazy to work. I've never tried to work enough hours to pay tuition and rent while trying to save enough to take a prep course and live off of while I do an unpaid internship, you probably never have either, but I have friends who have and it's really quite difficult. Anyway, my argument was NEVER that people should get a boost because they have hard circumstances which make it difficult for them to build up their soft factors (although both Black and White students do). My argument is: Just because you don't have the time and money of a more privileged person, doesn't mean you are not as qualified as they are to do well in Law School.