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Author Topic: Can lawyers be outsourced?  (Read 8021 times)

Hegel

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Re: Can lawyers be outsourced?
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2005, 11:13:22 PM »
RE: PaperbackWriter, you are close, but you still feel that the elite are safe from outsourcing.

I think you need to re-read my posts.  I, in fact, said the exact opposite.

I was keying in on your comment:

"Indians who are not located in the USA, or who are not naturalized citizens working in the USA, will not ever be able to successfully perform work that is anything close to what an American lawyer does."

There are so many Indians that there will be a higher incidence of brilliant lawyers.  Pure numbers game.  Four times the population as the US equals four times as many geniuses, some of which will become lawyers.

My guess is that there is an Indian guy(s)/gal(s) that is(are) smarter than any US guy/gal.  Don't underestimate them is all I'm saying.  However, with China, you might have a point, since English is not a primary language.


Hegel

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Re: Can lawyers be outsourced?
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2005, 11:26:06 PM »
The point is stopping trade and investment with China is not an option. Even if you could pull it off (which you could not), it would have really bad repurcussions.

China being a member of the UN Security Council and a particpant in other organizations (ASEAN, WHO, etc.) is important. It's not just some isolated Communist dictatorship like Cuba which can be pushed around. American allies like South Korea and Singapore aren't going to slap an embargo on China just because the U.S. says so.

That's not a rant. By the way, I started this topic. Don't be disrespectful.

Sorry, you misunderstood.  I was commenting that MY statement was a rant.  I commend you for bringing this topic up, by the way.

However, I disagree that there would be bad repurcussions.  Without going into too much detail ;), I believe there is currently a subsidy for Chinese goods.  It is in the following indirect forms:

1) unemployment and retraining benefits paid by the US for workers displaced
2) risks to the US posed by lack of inspections of imported shipping containers (this is a biggie)
3) possible strengthening of a future and current military enemy with a massive nuclear arsenal and larger population (another biggie)
4) loss of intellectual property and technological advantage both for the military and infrastructure (also a biggie)
5) as mentioned before, the loss of control of our currency and the credit markets (evidenced by huge Chinese holdings of American government bonds)

I can go on and on.  The distinct advantage that you have mentioned is regarding whether companies can build retail locations in China and whether they are willing to concede.  Of course, they are not willing to concede!  The five topics I mentioned, in my opinion, trump any economic advantages derived from cheap electronic devices, clothing, and/or other trinkets.  I'll take security for my children, my assets, and the people of the US over any trinkets EVEN IF it means paying more for the products.


mxpocc

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Re: Can lawyers be outsourced?
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2005, 11:47:18 PM »
RE: PaperbackWriter, you are close, but you still feel that the elite are safe from outsourcing.

I think you need to re-read my posts.  I, in fact, said the exact opposite.


There are so many Indians that there will be a higher incidence of brilliant lawyers.  Pure numbers game.  Four times the population as the US equals four times as many geniuses, some of which will become lawyers.

My guess is that there is an Indian guy(s)/gal(s) that is(are) smarter than any US guy/gal.  Don't underestimate them is all I'm saying.  However, with China, you might have a point, since English is not a primary language.



by that logic, China should have the most intelligent persons in the world. has that ever proven true throughout the existence of their thousands year old civilization?

not that that's anything you can measure and therefore prove (although by using a quantitative application, you are, indeed, trying to measure it)

Erick

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Re: Can lawyers be outsourced?
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2005, 02:49:03 PM »
The point is stopping trade and investment with China is not an option. Even if you could pull it off (which you could not), it would have really bad repurcussions.

China being a member of the UN Security Council and a particpant in other organizations (ASEAN, WHO, etc.) is important. It's not just some isolated Communist dictatorship like Cuba which can be pushed around. American allies like South Korea and Singapore aren't going to slap an embargo on China just because the U.S. says so.

That's not a rant. By the way, I started this topic. Don't be disrespectful.

Sorry, you misunderstood.  I was commenting that MY statement was a rant.  I commend you for bringing this topic up, by the way.

However, I disagree that there would be bad repurcussions.  Without going into too much detail ;), I believe there is currently a subsidy for Chinese goods.  It is in the following indirect forms:

1) unemployment and retraining benefits paid by the US for workers displaced
2) risks to the US posed by lack of inspections of imported shipping containers (this is a biggie)
3) possible strengthening of a future and current military enemy with a massive nuclear arsenal and larger population (another biggie)
4) loss of intellectual property and technological advantage both for the military and infrastructure (also a biggie)
5) as mentioned before, the loss of control of our currency and the credit markets (evidenced by huge Chinese holdings of American government bonds)

I can go on and on.  The distinct advantage that you have mentioned is regarding whether companies can build retail locations in China and whether they are willing to concede.  Of course, they are not willing to concede!  The five topics I mentioned, in my opinion, trump any economic advantages derived from cheap electronic devices, clothing, and/or other trinkets.  I'll take security for my children, my assets, and the people of the US over any trinkets EVEN IF it means paying more for the products.



You left out the Dell computers being manufactured in Shanghai.=)

Paikea

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Re: Can lawyers be outsourced?
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2005, 07:48:54 PM »
The mere fact that  China is one of the largest violators of human/labor rights should be cause enough for not doing trade or business with China, not to mention the fact that the US has vowed to stand up to countries who oppress and deny basic rights to its people.  Throw in that Chinia owns 75% of our nation's debt, and is now positioning itself to purchase one of our largest oil companies, UniCal...watch out!

But these don't matter, it's about the issues right?

Yep, in about 25 years, we will all be speaking Chinese.
"Those who want the Government to regulate matters of the mind and spirit are like men who are so afraid of being murdered that they commit suicide to avoid assassination." - Harry S. Truman

"All bad precedents begin with justifiable measures."  - Julius Caesar

lsatlover

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Re: Can lawyers be outsourced?
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2005, 07:54:21 PM »
The mere fact that  China is one of the largest violators of human/labor rights should be cause enough for not doing trade or business with China, not to mention the fact that the US has vowed to stand up to countries who oppress and deny basic rights to its people.  Throw in that Chinia owns 75% of our nation's debt, and is now positioning itself to purchase one of our largest oil companies, UniCal...watch out!

But these don't matter, it's about the issues right?

Yep, in about 25 years, we will all be speaking Chinese.


social security, unemployment benefits, union labor, medicare / medicaid, public education.  isn't it interesting that the U.S. actually has more communist elements than China?

Paikea

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Re: Can lawyers be outsourced?
« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2005, 08:08:52 PM »
The mere fact that  China is one of the largest violators of human/labor rights should be cause enough for not doing trade or business with China, not to mention the fact that the US has vowed to stand up to countries who oppress and deny basic rights to its people.  Throw in that Chinia owns 75% of our nation's debt, and is now positioning itself to purchase one of our largest oil companies, UniCal...watch out!

But these don't matter, it's about the issues right?

Yep, in about 25 years, we will all be speaking Chinese.


social security, unemployment benefits, union labor, medicare / medicaid, public education.  isn't it interesting that the U.S. actually has more communist elements than China?


Most likely the reason our current administration is tryng to do away with them all. (Oh Cr@p, there I go again with the political jabs.)

"Freedoms on the march" - but we just don't march through China.  (Oops, there I go again.)

 ;)
"Those who want the Government to regulate matters of the mind and spirit are like men who are so afraid of being murdered that they commit suicide to avoid assassination." - Harry S. Truman

"All bad precedents begin with justifiable measures."  - Julius Caesar

Hegel

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Re: Can lawyers be outsourced?
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2005, 06:53:15 PM »
by that logic, China should have the most intelligent persons in the world. has that ever proven true throughout the existence of their thousands year old civilization?

not that that's anything you can measure and therefore prove (although by using a quantitative application, you are, indeed, trying to measure it)

Awww ... come on!  The Chinese invented noodles and fireworks (rockets were later based on these concepts).  Those are two very important discoveries, especially on the Fourth of July ;)

Also, the Chinese discovered papermaking, printing, gunpowder, and the mariner's compass.  Do you agree these are important discoveries?  Oh yeah, let's add in for kicks: decimal mathematics, paper money, umbrellas, wheelbarrows, multi-stage rockets, brandy and whiskey, and the game of chess.

Erick

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Re: Can lawyers be outsourced?
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2005, 01:50:10 AM »
by that logic, China should have the most intelligent persons in the world. has that ever proven true throughout the existence of their thousands year old civilization?

not that that's anything you can measure and therefore prove (although by using a quantitative application, you are, indeed, trying to measure it)

Awww ... come on!  The Chinese invented noodles and fireworks (rockets were later based on these concepts).  Those are two very important discoveries, especially on the Fourth of July ;)

Also, the Chinese discovered papermaking, printing, gunpowder, and the mariner's compass.  Do you agree these are important discoveries?  Oh yeah, let's add in for kicks: decimal mathematics, paper money, umbrellas, wheelbarrows, multi-stage rockets, brandy and whiskey, and the game of chess.

The origins of noodles and chess are pretty controversial (and some would even say the same for gunpowder)。

First you want to put an embargo on the most populous country in the world and now this。 The real Hegel must be really unhappy。Wherever he is。

mxpocc

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Re: Can lawyers be outsourced?
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2005, 02:14:21 AM »
by that logic, China should have the most intelligent persons in the world. has that ever proven true throughout the existence of their thousands year old civilization?

not that that's anything you can measure and therefore prove (although by using a quantitative application, you are, indeed, trying to measure it)

Awww ... come on!  The Chinese invented noodles and fireworks (rockets were later based on these concepts).  Those are two very important discoveries, especially on the Fourth of July ;)

Also, the Chinese discovered papermaking, printing, gunpowder, and the mariner's compass.  Do you agree these are important discoveries?  Oh yeah, let's add in for kicks: decimal mathematics, paper money, umbrellas, wheelbarrows, multi-stage rockets, brandy and whiskey, and the game of chess.


no need to speak sarcastically--i never challenged their intelligence as a people. i simply asked a question

with that said, does all you've listed prove they've been the most intelligent persons in the world throughout history?