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Author Topic: Accepted off UofA waitlist... now what do I do??  (Read 4553 times)

AZWildcat

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Re: Accepted off UofA waitlist... now what do I do??
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2005, 12:09:05 AM »
Just one quick thing to note...  the number of people who are waitlisted at the U of A and accepted to ASU.  There's a school that clearly garners higher number/better applicant students.
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Jiffy

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Re: Accepted off UofA waitlist... now what do I do??
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2005, 11:39:37 AM »
The admissions process at ASU is interesting.  They require no second deposit.  I have received nothing to indicate my intention to attend since I sent in my initial deposit.  It seems like they will have a difficult time determining who will actually be showing up for classes.

geni

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Re: Accepted off UofA waitlist... now what do I do??
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2005, 12:55:02 PM »
Jiffy- good point.  I wondered about that as well... it seems like ASU is simply assuming that if you sent in the one deposit then you are planning on attending.  Since people who are accepted off of waitlists at other schools are still making decisions about where they will ultimately go, it doesn't seem like the one deposit would be much of an indicator of the actual entering class.

Thanks to everyone for your comments, both for ASU and for UofA.  I know UofA is more highly regarded nationally, but regionally, I don't honestly believe it matters as much (since I don't want to leave AZ, national reputation doesn't matter so much).  UofA wouldn't give me the opportunity to network in the Phoenix market the way ASU will (through clinical opportunities and externships), and let's face it... there are more jobs in Phoenix than Tucson. 

I feel like I will be very happy at either school.  I think I will probably stick with ASU, but I am leaving myself open for a little while, because I want to be sure I am doing what is best for me.  I will probably give myself a week or so to further consider each option.

AZWildcat

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Re: Accepted off UofA waitlist... now what do I do??
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2005, 04:02:21 PM »
Jiffy- good point.  I wondered about that as well... it seems like ASU is simply assuming that if you sent in the one deposit then you are planning on attending.  Since people who are accepted off of waitlists at other schools are still making decisions about where they will ultimately go, it doesn't seem like the one deposit would be much of an indicator of the actual entering class.

Thanks to everyone for your comments, both for ASU and for UofA.  I know UofA is more highly regarded nationally, but regionally, I don't honestly believe it matters as much (since I don't want to leave AZ, national reputation doesn't matter so much).  UofA wouldn't give me the opportunity to network in the Phoenix market the way ASU will (through clinical opportunities and externships), and let's face it... there are more jobs in Phoenix than Tucson. 

I feel like I will be very happy at either school.  I think I will probably stick with ASU, but I am leaving myself open for a little while, because I want to be sure I am doing what is best for me.  I will probably give myself a week or so to further consider each option.


If you want to stay in Phoenix, go to ASU, but to think that ASU somehow gives you a better chance in the Phoenix market is wrong.
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geni

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Re: Accepted off UofA waitlist... now what do I do??
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2005, 07:11:24 PM »
Interesting... you seem more than a bit biased toward UofA.  I understand that rankings are important to some people and that is fine.  I am in a bit different situation than you are, so I don't know that your bias translates well to my particular circumstances. 

Anyway, can you actually cite any sources that say that UofA actually does place better in Phoenix (beyond the fact that UofA is higher ranked)?  I am sure that it does place better in other states (since more UofA grads leave the state to work), but I am not so sure of any local advantage.  According to LSAC, 78% of ASU grads work in Arizona, while only 64.2% of UofA grads stay in the state.  So, if more ASU grads are working in Arizona, doesn't that indicate that they must place well locally??? 

If you have concrete evidence to the contrary, I would certainly be very interested to see it.

AZWildcat

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Re: Accepted off UofA waitlist... now what do I do??
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2005, 09:02:20 PM »
Interesting... you seem more than a bit biased toward UofA.  I understand that rankings are important to some people and that is fine.  I am in a bit different situation than you are, so I don't know that your bias translates well to my particular circumstances. 

Anyway, can you actually cite any sources that say that UofA actually does place better in Phoenix (beyond the fact that UofA is higher ranked)?  I am sure that it does place better in other states (since more UofA grads leave the state to work), but I am not so sure of any local advantage.  According to LSAC, 78% of ASU grads work in Arizona, while only 64.2% of UofA grads stay in the state.  So, if more ASU grads are working in Arizona, doesn't that indicate that they must place well locally??? 

If you have concrete evidence to the contrary, I would certainly be very interested to see it.

I am a bit biased because it's a better school, and the raw numbers agree with me.  I don't look at USNWR, what a waste of time... 

You're also misinterpreting the numbers.  Arizona is one of the most underrepresented legal markets in the US.  Only 300 students graduate in the state each year, and Phoenix is the biggest city with only one ABA law school.  In other words, ASU places well simply because there tend to be more jobs than students.

Now let's look at the QUALITY of those numbers.  Arizona's median private practice salary is $85000, ASU 72,000.  (25th-75th is 75,000-95,000 vs 55,000 - 90,000)  Please do not try the "Arizona is higher because they send more people out of state" arguement.  The difference as you pointed out is 10% which is not enough to move the 25th percentile anywhere close to $20000).  Then you can look at the bar passage rates, 93.3 vs 70%, which is a huge difference.  Finally, do you notice how many students are wait-listed at Arizona and accepted at ASU?   Arizona attracts a higher caliber student.  That is refelected in the bar passage rates and money earned. 

All of that said, when I am evaluating a law school for myself, I call law firms.  Ask to speak with the head of recruiting and fire these questions for yourself.  Ask them if there's an equal candidate from both schools, which one gets hired.  You'll see the obvious answer.
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inthesun

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Re: Accepted off UofA waitlist... now what do I do??
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2005, 09:16:02 PM »
My mom is friends with a woman who recruits for Fennemore Craig.  When I was accepted into ASU and U of A, she said to go to U of A if I could swing the move, because it is MUCH easier to get a job in Phoenix with a law degree from U of A.  Of course, working in Phoenix wasn't my biggest concern.  The only time ASU seems to have a one-up on U of A is jobs as a 2l or 3l.  Obviously, commuting from Phoenix to Tucson during school is impossible.  But you can still summer in Phoenix if you go to U of A, and an Arizona grad is in more demand.

Kwertee

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Re: Accepted off UofA waitlist... now what do I do??
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2005, 10:07:46 PM »
My mom is friends with a woman who recruits for Fennemore Craig. When I was accepted into ASU and U of A, she said to go to U of A if I could swing the move, because it is MUCH easier to get a job in Phoenix with a law degree from U of A. Of course, working in Phoenix wasn't my biggest concern. The only time ASU seems to have a one-up on U of A is jobs as a 2l or 3l. Obviously, commuting from Phoenix to Tucson during school is impossible. But you can still summer in Phoenix if you go to U of A, and an Arizona grad is in more demand.

I can see this.  It is as well known in Arizona as outside of Arizona that UofA is the better school.  The difference between the two may be marginal, but when you have as large of a market as Arizona that is supplied by only two schools (NAU doesnt count.), even this small difference can mean the world.

geni

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Re: Accepted off UofA waitlist... now what do I do??
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2005, 12:18:11 PM »
... Arizona's median private practice salary is $85000, ASU 72,000.  (25th-75th is 75,000-95,000 vs 55,000 - 90,000)  ...

Obviously you feel very strongly about this.  Could you please give me an idea of where you got these figures? 

I have found similar figures for ASU on its website ($72,320), but UofA's website conflicts with what you are saying.  UofA has two figures listed, both of which are lower than you stated... they list their median private sector salary as $80,000 and $79,000.  I didn't find anything which listed 25th-75th, so obviously we are looking at different sources... so I'd love to know where you are getting your numbers.

Also, according to their websites, more of ASU's grads go into private practice than do UofA grads (48% vs 41.5%), so perhaps it would be useful to consider their median public sector salaries as well... ASU $48,273 vs UofA $43,000 (again, according to their own websites). hmmm...

... Then you can look at the bar passage rates, 93.3 vs 70%, which is a huge difference...

I don't think your bar passage rate numbers are accurate, as far as I can tell.  According to LSAC, it is 92% vs. 84% (for summer 02 and winter 03 combined) or 91% vs 85% for just summer 02... although 6-8% is still a notable difference, it is not the enormous difference that you noted (23.3%). 


I agree with you that UofA is a great school... no one is arguing that it isn't.  I wouldn't be questioning my choice of going to ASU if it was an inferior school.  You point out that UofA has waitlisted applicants who were accepted at ASU and then say this means that ASU has lower quality students (I didn't miss the zing by the way, since I am obviously a student who was waitlisted at UofA and accepted to ASU).  However, UofA has since offered me (and other WLed people) an acceptance... does this mean they are now willing to sacrifice student quality by accepting those lowly students who were previously planning on attending ASU???  It seems to me that you are intent on denigrating ASU, offering numbers that are not entirely accurate to make ASU seem worse than it actually is.   

AZWildcat

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Re: Accepted off UofA waitlist... now what do I do??
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2005, 12:36:01 PM »
... Arizona's median private practice salary is $85000, ASU 72,000.  (25th-75th is 75,000-95,000 vs 55,000 - 90,000)  ...

Obviously you feel very strongly about this.  Could you please give me an idea of where you got these figures? 

I have found similar figures for ASU on its website ($72,320), but UofA's website conflicts with what you are saying.  UofA has two figures listed, both of which are lower than you stated... they list their median private sector salary as $80,000 and $79,000.  I didn't find anything which listed 25th-75th, so obviously we are looking at different sources... so I'd love to know where you are getting your numbers.

Also, according to their websites, more of ASU's grads go into private practice than do UofA grads (48% vs 41.5%), so perhaps it would be useful to consider their median public sector salaries as well... ASU $48,273 vs UofA $43,000 (again, according to their own websites). hmmm...

... Then you can look at the bar passage rates, 93.3 vs 70%, which is a huge difference...

I don't think your bar passage rate numbers are accurate, as far as I can tell.  According to LSAC, it is 92% vs. 84% (for summer 02 and winter 03 combined) or 91% vs 85% for just summer 02... although 6-8% is still a notable difference, it is not the enormous difference that you noted (23.3%). 


I agree with you that UofA is a great school... no one is arguing that it isn't.  I wouldn't be questioning my choice of going to ASU if it was an inferior school.  You point out that UofA has waitlisted applicants who were accepted at ASU and then say this means that ASU has lower quality students (I didn't miss the zing by the way, since I am obviously a student who was waitlisted at UofA and accepted to ASU).  However, UofA has since offered me (and other WLed people) an acceptance... does this mean they are now willing to sacrifice student quality by accepting those lowly students who were previously planning on attending ASU???  It seems to me that you are intent on denigrating ASU, offering numbers that are not entirely accurate to make ASU seem worse than it actually is.   

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/law/premium/main/lawrank.php
Feel free to correct me when I'm right.

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