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Author Topic: Discussion and Response to Criticism by Prof. Sander  (Read 4756 times)

risingMC

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Re: Discussion and Response to Criticism by Prof. Sander
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2005, 05:58:50 PM »
I wish they'd do research on other groups that get the benefit of AA. It's pretty well known (and documented) that African Americans get the biggest boost, so just by supporting that AfAms might be harmed by AA doesn't really do much to strike out AA in general. Assuming the factual stability of Prof Sanders study (which I haven't really looked at in too much statistical depth), maybe a little less of a boost might be beneficial.

In any event, nothing in that study really calls out for a mass dissassembly of Affirmative Action policies. 

tegra8

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Re: Discussion and Response to Criticism by Prof. Sander
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2005, 06:07:04 PM »
as already mentioned the white female argument is pointless in this debate...


 just go to LSN, when it's working again, sort a top school by index numbers and scroll to the bottom and almost every school will have extreme outliers that were admitted and every one of them will be a minority, not a white female.  IF i apply next year with the same stats and check black male instead of white, i not only get accepted at all the schools i got wailised/rejected at this year, but could easily jump into at least half of the top20 schools and that is why AA is a bunch of darn

This is why I stay away from these boards mostly, someone inevitably cries out that he is a victim with little evidence to support his assertion.

I am trying to have a discussion on how AA affects minorities, not whites, since it really doesn't significantly harm whites.

oh just wait til you go through admissions and see people being admitted with significantly lower scores than you because of their race... then we'll talk

bobwil50

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Re: Discussion and Response to Criticism by Prof. Sander
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2005, 08:32:09 PM »
as already mentioned the white female argument is pointless in this debate...


 just go to LSN, when it's working again, sort a top school by index numbers and scroll to the bottom and almost every school will have extreme outliers that were admitted and every one of them will be a minority, not a white female.  IF i apply next year with the same stats and check black male instead of white, i not only get accepted at all the schools i got wailised/rejected at this year, but could easily jump into at least half of the top20 schools and that is why AA is a bunch of darn

This is why I stay away from these boards mostly, someone inevitably cries out that he is a victim with little evidence to support his assertion.

I am trying to have a discussion on how AA affects minorities, not whites, since it really doesn't significantly harm whites.

oh just wait til you go through admissions and see people being admitted with significantly lower scores than you because of their race... then we'll talk

I realize that this will happen.  I also realize that AA admissions don't significantly affect my admission chances.  In the absence of affirmative action, I would have roughly the same shot at getting into the schools I apply to.

Just because someone else gets a boost, does not mean I am harmed.  My next store neighbor might win the lottery, and I might be really jealous of him and wish I had won the lottery.  However, this is hardly grounds for me to get mad at him, since his good fortune doesn't change my lot.  I know it isn't an exact analogy, but I think it demonstrates the point.
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jwilcox1024

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Re: Discussion and Response to Criticism by Prof. Sander
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2005, 12:22:00 AM »
I wish they'd do research on other groups that get the benefit of AA. It's pretty well known (and documented) that African Americans get the biggest boost, so just by supporting that AfAms might be harmed by AA doesn't really do much to strike out AA in general. Assuming the factual stability of Prof Sanders study (which I haven't really looked at in too much statistical depth), maybe a little less of a boost might be beneficial.

In any event, nothing in that study really calls out for a mass dissassembly of Affirmative Action policies. 

I think Prof. Sander would agree with you. His point isn't that AA is a bad (in the pejorative sense ) system or that it shouldn't be used. If I remember correctly, his position is more along the lines of the system as designed isn't working, helping these groups out is important, so we need to start thinking of more effective ways of doing this.
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Jwebony956

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Re: Discussion and Response to Criticism by Prof. Sander
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2005, 08:51:29 AM »
as already mentioned the white female argument is pointless in this debate...


 just go to LSN, when it's working again, sort a top school by index numbers and scroll to the bottom and almost every school will have extreme outliers that were admitted and every one of them will be a minority, not a white female.  IF i apply next year with the same stats and check black male instead of white, i not only get accepted at all the schools i got wailised/rejected at this year, but could easily jump into at least half of the top20 schools and that is why AA is a bunch of darn

LSN is a fallible database and so is your claim that you may have a better chance at gaining acceptance to a top 20 school if you play the race card. What many people--yourself included--fail to understand is that AA is NOT there to undermine the intellectual capabilities and talents of minorities. It is there to ensure that discriminatory practices against women and people of color are abated. Given the history of this country, without the policy of AA racial and sexual discrimination would be moreso prevalent in today's society. Without it, access to higher education or any professional field for African Americans and other minorities would be even more difficult to attain. And as the American government we want to ensure that there really is "equality for all" citizens, correct?.. especially for those who have built this country that we call America?  The ancestors of African Americans have never had the same access as White males, but their generation now have a BETTER chance. The issue of whether there really is equality for Blacks over two centuries after the ending of slavery is a topic that can be debated. Either way, I will always be in full support of AA.
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jwilcox1024

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Re: Discussion and Response to Criticism by Prof. Sander
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2005, 09:35:24 AM »
The issue of whether there really is equality for Blacks over two centuries after the ending of slavery is a topic that can be debated. Either way, I will always be in full support of AA.

I hate to throw this thread even further off-topic. But. Statements like this are one of the reasons so many people have a negative attitude towards AA (and brings out many of the anti-AA crazies). You seem to be saying that even when equality is achieved you will still support AA for blacks. This makes people atleast think about whether AA is really about improving equality due to past wrongs or just a special-interest entitlement program.
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tegra8

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Re: Discussion and Response to Criticism by Prof. Sander
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2005, 10:11:51 AM »
simple question then.... why have a place to declare race at all?  it is not possible to disciriminate if you dont know the race of the applicants?

and if everyone truly believes I would not be practically guaranteed admission by playing the race card, you guys are naive

risingMC

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Re: Discussion and Response to Criticism by Prof. Sander
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2005, 11:05:46 AM »
Who wants to get this post back on topic?


*hand*

Daddylonglegs32

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Re: Discussion and Response to Criticism by Prof. Sander
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2005, 12:05:18 PM »


oh just wait til you go through admissions and see people being admitted with significantly lower scores than you because of their race... then we'll talk
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how do you know that they were accepted because of thier race without reading their personal statements/and letters of rec???  You, Sir, are an idot. 

Daddylonglegs32

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Re: Discussion and Response to Criticism by Prof. Sander
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2005, 12:09:05 PM »

 just go to LSN, when it's working again, sort a top school by index numbers and scroll to the bottom and almost every school will have extreme outliers that were admitted and every one of them will be a minority, not a white female.  IF i apply next year with the same stats and check black male instead of white, i not only get accepted at all the schools i got wailised/rejected at this year, but could easily jump into at least half of the top20 schools and that is why AA is a bunch of darn
Quote

I really am sorry that you are stuck in limbo this late in the application season (that really does suck).. but perhaps if you focused on increasing YOUR credentials to respectibility, YOU would have a fighting chance next application cycle...   Just worry about YOU, and only YOU. 
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