Syracuse vs Southwestern

[loulielawyer]

quick, without looking at USNews, tell me which school would be better for working in San Francisco- Marquette University in Wisconsin, or University of San Francisco?


now go check out the rankings....this is a replication of the question you are asking on this board. but i am sure you would never have known Marquette was ranked higher (this year at least) over USF. well neither would employers.

Point well made! I think you just made your case!

[Southwestern2L]

Southwestern is a very good school, and is very respected in California. Heck, half the lawyers in this state, regardless of where they have graduate from, appear before judges who graduated from SWLAW. If you want to practice in California (especially Southern California), it pays to stay local. Syracuse is a decent school, for sure, but why be an "outsider" when it comes to getting a job in this market?

As for the lack of an undergraduate institution...I'm sure it hurts the school's "ranking", but except for the missing on-campus activities (such as sports and plays), which you as a 1L won't have much time to attend anyway, it's hardly missed. In fact, UCLA and USC are so close, why not go watch the Trojans and the Bruins battle it out? Or go to the Getty or a play at UCLA's playhouse.

My only caveat: cost of living in LA is high. Figure over $1000/month for rent alone, and driving in West LA (or any part of LA) can be annoying because of traffic. I don't know how that compares to where Syracuse is located.

[bdc]

first off, getting a joint JD/mba or other grad level degree has nothing to do with undergrad.  I certainly did not say that it would be easier to get a job in cali by way of syracuse.  I just said that bc of all the cali students going to syracuse makes it a little easier.  I said nothing about ranking which I agree with most of what was said.The fact is that southwestern is last in line as far as the other socal law schools and the attirition rate is horrible.  one can be successful at any aba school that is why I suggested that he go visit both schools and give each a fair shot to see what is the best fit for him.  dont quote me and then rant about rankings when i made no such argument.

[Candide!]

The attachment to an undergrad gives you more options as far as joint degrees and specialties. 

 

[bdc]

alright, undergrad also has grad programs which in turn leads to joint degrees.

[Southwestern2L]

Southwestern doesn't have an "attrition rate" per se. If you fall below a 2.0, you are bounced, but a) you really have to not know your stuff or not study to fall below a 2.0 because we don't, contrary to popular rumor, have a true curve, and b) even if you fall below a 2.0 after your first year, you can petition to be let back in.

I still think it's better to study in the state where you plan to practice, if your choice is between two arguably regional schools.

[simon_littletree]

"It's considered the #4 (with Pepperdine)"

Pepperdine's considered 4th in the LA pecking order, but not "with" Southwestern.  SW's a clear 5th.  See rank, bar passage rates and overall quality of school. 

[The Ven]

Thanx for all the input guys.  Here's what I'm thinking:

My deposit is already in at Southwestern. When I applied to law school I wanted to stay in Cali. My 1st choice was Pepperdine- got rejected. Syracuse was sort of a back-up in the case of not being admitted to any decent Cali schools. In my opinion SW is decent. So, although Syracuse does have slightly more name recognition nationally, its probably ont worth the hardship of moving clear across the country for. I have many legal contacts here and am currently trying to contact them all to verify this line of thinking. From what it sounds like so far they will most likely agree. I do see the appeal of a "real" university. Thats why I would even consider Syracuse. I will think on it some more but most likely I'm gooing with Southwestern.

[Al]

The fact that you guys are calling SW or even pepperdine 4th or 5th in LA is really STUPID

The fact is that any and all firms will take ANYONE from Yale, Harvard etc... all the way down to about Penn (1-10) +UCLA and USC. Then they will look at schools ranked 10-20 and pick out the law review/moot court/journal types (and there are plenty). Etc..

So basically you guys are dead wrong . SW or pepperdine is at the bottom of any recruiters list when it comes to the L.A. market. Dont fool yourselves.

A Syracuse graduate will have the same chances as a SW graduate. the only disadvantage will be that the SW can get a head start pounding on peoples doors during the year in their backyard. And you will be doing alot of networking and coldcalling for jobs so be prepared.

[simon_littletree]

"The fackt that you guys are calling SW or even pepperdine 4th or 5th in LA is really STUPID"

This is classic.  Certainly USC and UCLA are better, but Latham and Gibson, for example, hire Pepperdine students at the top of their class.  Many medium law firms also hire students throughout the class. 

It's pretty stupid that you deny the existence of a regional pecking order.  LA is a HUGE legal market and local firms sometimes (GASP!) go outside of the top-20 to hire.  There's lots of evidence.  Some firms also have relationships with schools: Kirkland has been hiring from Pepperdine b/c of Ken Starr and lots of local big firms hire from Loyola routinely. 

So, your statement that firms are loathe to hire from a school like Pepperdine is the only one that's "dead wrong." 

You sound like you have no experience in any, let alone the LA, legal market.