# Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
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#### M2

• Guest
##### Read all rules and THEN diagram?
« on: June 07, 2004, 06:46:17 PM »
Powerscore recommends reading the intro and all the rules and then to Diagram...
Their reasoning is that if two rules have some sort of relationship too much time will be wasted erasing the first rule.
An example being this..

A must be with  B
F cannot be next to G
A comes before K

They are saying that it wastes too much time to change
AB
to AB>K

What does everyone think about this? My natural inclination is to draw the diagrams and rules as i go.

#### jacy85

• LSD Obsessed
• Posts: 6859
##### Re: Read all rules and THEN diagram?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2004, 07:02:29 PM »
I dunno...I'm on the fence with this one too.  There have been a few games where I start diagramming, and for some reason or other, had to start over because the correct set up wasn't really clear until you got to the rules.  Although I think reading the rules first may help, even if it just means you can group rules that have a single variable in common together, instead of at the beginning and end of your rules.

Maybe I'll try reading first, and see if it makes a difference.  Although whatever difference it makes, it'll be a very small one, I think.

#### Tyrant

• Full Member
• Posts: 45
##### Re: Read all rules and THEN diagram?
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2004, 07:09:33 PM »
I'm thinking it doesn't matter as well. I'm working through the LGB and saw that. I've tried to use it but find myself just diagraming as I go and if I have to revise I will. I think that if you got so efficient at diagraming that you almost don't need to diagram well then perhaps reading everything first before you diagram will save you some time. I'm not at that level.

There was a poster on here talking about using a pen/highlighter for diagrams and then ereasing for each problem to same space and PS says that you'll be losing information that can be used on other problems and recommends that you diagram at the bottom of the book and diagram local questions by the actual questions. I really like this suggestion.

#### nathanielmark

• Guest
##### Re: Read all rules and THEN diagram?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2004, 09:11:12 PM »
this is one of the few things i deviate from PS on.  i also erase sometimes if i have an overly complex diagram that can be quickly used to solve problems and there is insuficient room.

Powerscore recommends reading the intro and all the rules and then to Diagram...
Their reasoning is that if two rules have some sort of relationship too much time will be wasted erasing the first rule.
An example being this..

A must be with  B
F cannot be next to G
A comes before K

They are saying that it wastes too much time to change
AB
to AB>K

What does everyone think about this? My natural inclination is to draw the diagrams and rules as i go.

#### jacy85

• LSD Obsessed
• Posts: 6859
##### Re: Read all rules and THEN diagram?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2004, 09:11:43 PM »
Yup, I use that strategy all the time.  Especially on must be true questions.  On these, often time you can narrow it down to two choices right off the bat, just by looking at previous work.  (unless your previous work is incorrect, in which case I guess you're screwed...)

#### dsong02

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 4946
• small. yellow. different.
##### Re: Read all rules and THEN diagram?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2004, 09:19:44 PM »
again...just my 2 cents.  ill shut up if you guys want to just share amongst yourselves instead...

my approach to games:
write out each rule as it comes next to the clue itself

A must be with  B (AB or BA)
F cannot be next to G (F-\-G)
A comes before K (A-->K)

then i numbered each so i know exactly how many rules were given.

then i made another column for extrapolated clues:
(AB or BA)-->K

i guess this example doesnt really show you how valuable this was for me.  but for games that have a few clues and a lot of extrapolations, it tends to be pretty helpful because all the rules are right there in front of you.

i also found that writing out all the rules helped instead of clumping them together because sometimes the simple rules can be overlooked when answering questions.

if i see AB (A next to B), it is easier for me to see that if that is a separate rule, as opposed to seeing AB-->K.

hope these points can help at least one of you...

if not, just tell me to shut the @#!* up and i wont bother you guys anymore...
'why does it hurt so much when i poke it?'

#### jacy85

• LSD Obsessed
• Posts: 6859
##### Re: Read all rules and THEN diagram?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2004, 09:21:43 PM »
Definitely not a bother.  Even if we don't take your advice, it's still helpful/interesting to see how someone else did it. Thanks for taking the time to give up your input!

#### Nylo

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 261
##### Re: Read all rules and THEN diagram?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2004, 09:34:07 PM »
I can see the logic behind PowerScore's recommendation, but in practice, it slows me down too much. I just read enough to get a sense of what type of game it is (i.e. what diagram/approach to use) and then I start drawing. I think taking a few seconds to modify a diagrammed rule when there's new info is ok; having to erase your entire setup because you thought it was an advanced linear game when it's really a grouping game is NOT ok.