Law School Discussion

State of Black Marriages....

elegantpearl01

State of Black Marriages....
« on: May 29, 2005, 02:27:48 PM »
I thought this might be timely...EP

The shocking state of Black marriage: experts say many will never get married
Ebony,  Nov, 2003  by Joy Bennett Kinnon

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THE good news is that the Black marriage rate seems to be on the upswing--from 46.1 percent in 1996 to 47.9 percent in 2001--after a 40-year downward spiral.

But the slight increase is only one cheerful note in an otherwise mournful tune. The bad news is that the number of Black married couples is only half the number of married Whites, and the situation is getting worse. In 1963 when Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. gave his "I Have a Dream" speech, more than 70 percent of all Black families were headed by married couples. In 2002 that number was 48 percent.

An even more alarming statistic is the increase in the number of both Black men and women who have never been married. Nearly 45 percent of Black men have never married and 42 percent of Black women have never married. More to the point, an increasing number of Black women will never get married. The percentage of Black women who are married declined from 62 percent to 31 percent between 1950 and 2002.

Not only are African-Americans marrying at a lower rate, they are also marrying at a later age. The Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies reports that by the age of 30, 81 percent of White women and 77 percent of Hispanics and Asians will marry, but that only 52 percent of Black women will marry by that age. Black women are also the least likely to re-marry following divorce. Only 32 percent of Black women will get married again within five years of divorce; that figure is 58 percent for White women and 44 percent for Hispanic women.
Thus, we have another major crisis on our hands. Quiet as it's kept, we are confronted with one of the biggest crises in the history of African-American people.

"The Black family has crumbled more in the last 30 years than it did in the entire 14 decades since slavery," says Dr. Julia Hare, author, psychologist and executive director of San Francisco's the Black Think Tank.

The basic problem here and elsewhere is the shattering impact of a racist system that disproportionately penalizes Black boys and Black girls and Black brides and Black grooms. Despite the laudable gains of individual Blacks and the increasing number of well-to-do and even rich brides and grooms, the economic disparity between the Black community and the White community is growing. The unemployment rate of Black America is higher today than it was on the day King dreamed his dream--8.1 percent then and 10.4 percent now--and drugs and the systemic incarceration of a whole generation of young Black males have distorted almost all institutions in Black America. Nearly 2 million Black males are either currently in a state or federal prison or have been at one time, and experts add that almost 17 percent of Black men had prison experience in 2001 compared with 7.7 percent of Hispanic men and 2.6 percent of White men.

Experts say these factors and others have weakened Black community institutions. Dr. Frank Harold Wilson, president of the Association of Black Sociologists, and sociology professor at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, says that the traditional controls of the "church, school and community that reinforced the family are increasingly challenged by new social controls of the media, peer groups and 'the street.'"

All of this--the ravages of the drug crisis and the AIDS crisis, the phenomenally high number of Blacks in jail, the unacceptably high rate of unemployment--has measurably and dramatically decreased the pool of marriageable Black men. So has the increase in the number of Black men--1 out of 10, according to some experts--who are marrying non-Black women. "This country is in an interracial marriage boom," Dr. Hare says. "One out of 10 Black men will marry White women; that's 10 percent of our men gone."

Dr. Wilson says that the meanings given to dating, sex, and marital and extramarital relationships among Blacks are changing. Other experts agree and add that some Black men and women have different expectations of marriage. "[Some] Black women assume the marriage will be monogamous; [some] Black men don't attach as much significance to monogamy," says Dr. Beverly Guy-Sheftall, co-author of Gender Talk (with Dr. Johnnetta Betsch Cole), and the Anna Julia Cooper Professor of Women's Studies and English and the director of the Women's Research and Resource Center at Spelman College.

The inevitable result has been a tightening of the sexual lines in Black America and an increase in tension between Black males and Black females. "There is a huge level of distrust among young Black men and women," Dr. Guy-Sheftall says. Dr. Hare agrees, saying there is an "acute crisis" in Black sexual politics that is creating frustration and distrust and a "schism in Black male and female relations."

This schism and America's new consumption culture have had a major impact on the deteriorating quality of Black relationships, Dr. Wilson says.

"In the increasingly post-industrial urban society, theater and game-playing often consume more quality and quantity time than life itself," says Dr. Wilson. Instead of "keeping it real," many couples are putting more energy into the "show" than the relationship. "The expectations of theater and 'being on stage' means that a lot of time and energy is spent in preparing for performance both on and off stage."

Dr. Hare adds that while many couples work on creating drama in their relationships, they often won't seek help in quashing the drama when their marriage is in trouble. "You have to work at a marriage," she says. "We will work hard to get the latest Manolo Blahnik shoes. We're too quick to give up [on marriage]."

Along with working on improving relationships for those who are married, Dr. Guy-Sheftall offers the following solutions to increase the Black marriage rate--lowering unemployment, changing the policy toward nonviolent drug offenders, reducing the HIV/AIDS rate, decreasing the desertion, separation and divorce rate and increasing the re-marriage rates for Black women.

Other experts say the primary answer to increasing the Black marriage rate is increasing family income. "The stresses and strains are much greater on families whose income is less," says Dr. Charles Vert Willie, author and Charles William Eliot Professor of Education emeritus, Harvard Graduate School of Education.

Dr. Willie adds that the fact that the Black median income is only two-thirds of White median income (Whites, $53,000; Blacks, $34,000) affects the marriage rate. "The disparity in the income is a major factor associated with the people who never marry or who don't re-marry after they have been divorced. A Black median income that is only two-thirds that of Whites in the year 2000 is a shame," says the pioneering author and sociologist.

Despite all of these problems, the unbelievably tough and resilient Black family--as recent statistics prove--is alive and well. Not only is the number of Black married couples increasing, but Black men and women are continuing to pioneer extended family arrangements and equal partner arrangements.

Dr. Willie says that the crisis of the Black family is only one aspect of the general crisis of the family in America and that Black men and women are creating new paths for all to follow.

"Blacks are leading the nation in relationships where the husband and wife are partners in an equal way, where neither the husband nor the wife has dominant power," he says. "Persons in these kinds of relationships feel much more comfortable, productive and happy. Hopefully this is where our society is headed."





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Re: State of Black Marriages....
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2005, 02:46:58 PM »
I hope this not true.  However, if it is, I will gladly donate myself to as many fine sisters as needed so they wont have to go without getting married. ;D

elegantpearl01

Re: State of Black Marriages....
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2005, 02:51:13 PM »
I'm going to tell on you... ;)

Re: State of Black Marriages....
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2005, 04:04:28 PM »
That article is way too true. I can even see it in my family. Of my mom and her five sisters, all of the women who married black men, had lower incomes and wound up divorced. The one who married a white man has a much higher household income and they've been happily married for nearly forty years.

I think that the financial struggle puts so much strain on relationships that it's difficult to make it through the rough times. Money should not be everything, but when every day is a struggle to survive, it just can't be ignored. Simple problems can that can be solved by money aren't in many black families because of finances. For example, both parents working long days. They need extended hours daycare but can't afford it. Husband doesn't get out of work in time to pick the kid up, wife can't make it home on the train to pick the kid up, argument and blame ensues and the rift begins. All because of the inability to afford extended hours childcare.

HBCU.EDU

Re: State of Black Marriages....
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2005, 04:25:29 PM »
That article is way too true. I can even see it in my family. Of my mom and her five sisters, all of the women who married black men, had lower incomes and wound up divorced. The one who married a white man has a much higher household income and they've been happily married for nearly forty years.

I think that the financial struggle puts so much strain on relationships that it's difficult to make it through the rough times. Money should not be everything, but when every day is a struggle to survive, it just can't be ignored. Simple problems can that can be solved by money aren't in many black families because of finances. For example, both parents working long days. They need extended hours daycare but can't afford it. Husband doesn't get out of work in time to pick the kid up, wife can't make it home on the train to pick the kid up, argument and blame ensues and the rift begins. All because of the inability to afford extended hours childcare.


What you said is bull. So, I guess black women should just have sex with white men huh? That would definitely solve the problem between "black men AND black women". Sisters on this board are trying to marry brothers. Sucking white cock aint the answer to everything. Did you read the article?

"In 1963 when Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. gave his "I Have a Dream" speech, more than 70 percent of all Black families were headed by married couples. In 2002 that number was 48 percent."

We were getting our ass kicked by the white man back in 63. We had less education and a lot less money. Would you agree with this? Yet.....we were married at a higher rate! Basically, what you just said is bull.

Finances don't have 1/2 as much to do with it as the changing roles of black families. Black Men and Women are getting more education and making more money. We are waiting longer to get married these days because of other pursuits. It's not like we are getting married at 16 and having 20 kids in order to have enough cotton pickers on our farm. Black people got sh*t to do these days. This whole bull about "the one who married a white man has a much higher household income and they've been happily married for nearly forty years" is bull. My grandmother was dirt poor with a 3rd grade education and she was married for over 40 yrs. Also, she had 14 kids so wtf?   

You know, I’ll put money on the fact that you are either dating a white man right now or you have in the past. I’ve heard people talk like you so many times. “I date white men because they don’t do this that and the other”…..Listen…..if you want to date white men for the rest of your life I say be my guest. Really…who gives a #@!*? However, don’t come in here trying to put these white boys over black men just because they make more money than us. You know what………money aint everything and it’s not going to keep you married. Money has nothing to do with staying married….look at Hollywood or just turn on ET or something. 

Re: State of Black Marriages....
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2005, 04:34:05 PM »
That article is way too true. I can even see it in my family. Of my mom and her five sisters, all of the women who married black men, had lower incomes and wound up divorced. The one who married a white man has a much higher household income and they've been happily married for nearly forty years.

I think that the financial struggle puts so much strain on relationships that it's difficult to make it through the rough times. Money should not be everything, but when every day is a struggle to survive, it just can't be ignored. Simple problems can that can be solved by money aren't in many black families because of finances. For example, both parents working long days. They need extended hours daycare but can't afford it. Husband doesn't get out of work in time to pick the kid up, wife can't make it home on the train to pick the kid up, argument and blame ensues and the rift begins. All because of the inability to afford extended hours childcare.


  What you said is bull. So, I guess black women should just go suck a white male private part huh? Did you read the article?

"In 1963 when Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. gave his "I Have a Dream" speech, more than 70 percent of all Black families were headed by married couples. In 2002 that number was 48 percent."

We were getting our ass kicked by the white man back in 63. We had less education and a lot less money. Would you agree with this? Yet.....we were married at a higher rate! Basically, what you just said is bull.

Finances don't have 1/2 as much to do with it as the changing roles of black families. Black Men and Women are getting more education and making more money. We are waiting longer to get married these days because of other pursuits. It's not like we are getting married at 16 and having 20 kids in order to have enough cotton pickers on our farm. Black people got *&^% to do these days. This whole bull about "the one who married a white man has a much higher household income and they've been happily married for nearly forty years" is bull.   

You know, I’ll put money on the fact that you are either dating a white man right now or you have in the past. I’ve heard people talk like you so many times. “I date white men because they don’t do this that and the other”…..Listen…..if you want to suck a white male private part for the rest of your life I say be my guest. Really…who gives a #@!*? However, don’t come in here trying to put these white boys over black men just because they make more money than us. You know what………money aint everything and it’s not going to keep you married. Money has nothing to do with staying married….look at Hollywood or just turn on ET or something. 


The article clearly said that marriages where the partners earn more money are more successful. How employers view earning potential and then pay their employees is largely racist issue. This is why the white man has a far higher salary and that family has never had to have the child care fight. That's all that I'm saying.

I'm married to a good man and he happens to be white. I don't care if you don't like it. I also don't care that you're so sensitive that you must believe that saying whites earn more than blacks becomes someone saying that white men are better than black men. It's pretty funny that you take an issue that is about employer's racism and make it about a black woman dating outside the race. I'd rather go after the racist employers who won't give us a chance to earn equal pay for doing the same job. Stop being so divisive.

As for the money issue. Our grandparents had different values and measures of success and happiness than we do now. For them, money was not everything and the divide between how much you earn and how much it costs to live was a lot smaller. My grandmother and grandfather made very little and were married for over fifty years until one of them died. There was a time when material possessions were luxuries and not necessities and where material good were not our gods. Now even the church-goers are materialistic. Now you have to have a car to get to a job and it costs you an entire day's pay just to take your family to the movies.

HBCU.EDU

Re: State of Black Marriages....
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2005, 04:53:32 PM »
That article is way too true. I can even see it in my family. Of my mom and her five sisters, all of the women who married black men, had lower incomes and wound up divorced. The one who married a white man has a much higher household income and they've been happily married for nearly forty years.

I think that the financial struggle puts so much strain on relationships that it's difficult to make it through the rough times. Money should not be everything, but when every day is a struggle to survive, it just can't be ignored. Simple problems can that can be solved by money aren't in many black families because of finances. For example, both parents working long days. They need extended hours daycare but can't afford it. Husband doesn't get out of work in time to pick the kid up, wife can't make it home on the train to pick the kid up, argument and blame ensues and the rift begins. All because of the inability to afford extended hours childcare.


  What you said is bull. So, I guess black women should just go suck a white male private part huh? Did you read the article?

"In 1963 when Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. gave his "I Have a Dream" speech, more than 70 percent of all Black families were headed by married couples. In 2002 that number was 48 percent."

We were getting our ass kicked by the white man back in 63. We had less education and a lot less money. Would you agree with this? Yet.....we were married at a higher rate! Basically, what you just said is bull.

Finances don't have 1/2 as much to do with it as the changing roles of black families. Black Men and Women are getting more education and making more money. We are waiting longer to get married these days because of other pursuits. It's not like we are getting married at 16 and having 20 kids in order to have enough cotton pickers on our farm. Black people got sh*t to do these days. This whole bull about "the one who married a white man has a much higher household income and they've been happily married for nearly forty years" is bull.   

You know, I’ll put money on the fact that you are either dating a white man right now or you have in the past. I’ve heard people talk like you so many times. “I date white men because they don’t do this that and the other”…..Listen…..if you want to suck a white male private part for the rest of your life I say be my guest. Really…who gives a #@!*? However, don’t come in here trying to put these white boys over black men just because they make more money than us. You know what………money aint everything and it’s not going to keep you married. Money has nothing to do with staying married….look at Hollywood or just turn on ET or something. 


The article clearly said that marriages where the partners earn more money are more successful. How employers view earning potential and then pay their employees is largely racist issue. This is why the white man has a far higher salary and that family has never had to have the child care fight. That's all that I'm saying.

I'm married to a good man and he happens to be white. I don't care if you don't like it. I also don't care that you're so sensitive that you must believe that saying whites earn more than blacks becomes someone saying that white men are better than black men. It's pretty funny that you take an issue that is about employer's racism and make it about a black woman dating outside the race. I'd rather go after the racist employers who won't give us a chance to earn equal pay for doing the same job. Stop being so divisive.


Scurvy: “I'm married to a good man and he happens to be white. I don't care if you don't like it.”

First of all it’s obvious that you are married to a white man.  WTF? Can you read? Ok…let me help you out:

”…..Listen…..if you want to suck a white male private part for the rest of your life I say be my guest. Really…who gives a #@!*?

Did you not read that? I said before that it doesn’t matter.

Scurvy: “The article clearly said that marriages where the partners earn more money are more successful. “

Hey, the article clearly said: “In 1963 when Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. gave his "I Have a Dream" speech, more than 70 percent of all Black families were headed by married couples. In 2002 that number was 48 percent."

White men are ALWAYS going to make more money than  black men. That’s just a fact. So, I guess black women should never marry black men because we are not going to make enough money. I mean, you’ve got it all figured out.

Scurvy: “I also don't care that you're so sensitive that you must believe that saying whites earn more than blacks becomes someone saying that white men are better than black men”

That is what you said! You made it into a race issue not me. Hey, if you just said that black families are having problems staying together because of financial problems I wouldn’t have had a problem with it. Period. But, there was NO REASON for you to talk about your family member who is married to a white man and as a result they are happily married unlike the other family member who married black men and are broke and divorced. That is very insulting.


Re: State of Black Marriages....
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2005, 05:53:27 PM »
The problem with black marriages today is the fact that the mentalities have changed of both women and men.. honestly I believe that a lot of people sabotage their marriages early on.. but I’ll get to that point in a second..

Money isn’t everything.. that’s truth.. but it is a huge factor because people let the financial status of what they see on tv or what the “jones’ “ are doing dictate the lifestyle that they want.. no one wants to struggle… but what happened to supporting one another through goals and endeavors?? If that means that the woman has to take a “leadership” role (financially based alone) for a short time period so that the man can do what he feels needs to be done (of course this is a decision that both parties should make together)  to carry the family to a better financial situation then so be it.. Women need to step up to the plate.. 

the problem is that a lot of times when women tell their men that they’ll support them- they’re the same women who will throw in that man’s face that they’re making more money at the time….

Here’s the thing.. we believe that in spite of all of our faults and problems that men just have to deal with it without any say.. but let the man do the same thing that we’ve done.. or talk to us in a manner that we’ve talked to them- they’re labeled as bad men..

We have double standards too women.. let’s not forget that…

it’s alright for us to be teachers for example.. but if the man is a teacher we aren’t even interested in entertaining him as a possible option for marriage..

All of this actually started in my opinion when we went to college… a lot of “good girls” were interested in getting involved with men who don’t necessarily have the values that we desire in a man but they’re attractive.. and they’re good for a thrill..

So in turn we’ve settled for less than what we’re worth and it’s hard to break out of that stigma… dating the “thugs” the “pretty boys” who are attractive with no substance etc..men who cared about themselves or their element more than they cared about the woman or the core values that I’ve talked about in the ask a black girl thread…

Someone told us that it’s okay to be with a man

who’s cheated on us..

who’s still at home letting mama take care of him..

who has kids that he doesn’t take care of

who does drugs

who dresses like a buffoon

who doesn’t respect us as women

who doesn’t know where he came from

who has no goals other than becoming a rap artist (sorry bruh if it hasn’t happened by now the probability is slim to none)

well look.. it’s not alright..

CHILVARY IS NOT DEAD!

and the reason that men are getting away with these things is because we let them.. RBG said something to that effect a while ago and damn near got smacked down for even alluding to it…

the difference between our grandparents and us is that women back then knew how to step up to the plate.. . they knew how to make the best out of every situation and they demanded the respect .. love and compassion that they deserved from men…

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Re: State of Black Marriages....
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2005, 06:03:51 PM »
The problem with black marriages today is the fact that the mentalities have changed of both women and men.. honestly I believe that a lot of people sabotage their marriages early on.. but I’ll get to that point in a second..

Money isn’t everything.. that’s truth.. but it is a huge factor because people let the financial status of what they see on tv or what the “jones’ “ are doing dictate the lifestyle that they want.. no one wants to struggle… but what happened to supporting one another through goals and endeavors?? If that means that the woman has to take a “leadership” role (financially based alone) for a short time period so that the man can do what he feels needs to be done (of course this is a decision that both parties should make together)  to carry the family to a better financial situation then so be it.. Women need to step up to the plate.. 

the problem is that a lot of times when women tell their men that they’ll support them- they’re the same women who will throw in that man’s face that they’re making more money at the time….

Here’s the thing.. we believe that in spite of all of our faults and problems that men just have to deal with it without any say.. but let the man do the same thing that we’ve done.. or talk to us in a manner that we’ve talked to them- they’re labeled as bad men..

We have double standards too women.. let’s not forget that…

it’s alright for us to be teachers for example.. but if the man is a teacher we aren’t even interested in entertaining him as a possible option for marriage..

All of this actually started in my opinion when we went to college… a lot of “good girls” were interested in getting involved with men who don’t necessarily have the values that we desire in a man but they’re attractive.. and they’re good for a thrill..

So in turn we’ve settled for less than what we’re worth and it’s hard to break out of that stigma… dating the “thugs” the “pretty boys” who are attractive with no substance etc..men who cared about themselves or their element more than they cared about the woman or the core values that I’ve talked about in the ask a black girl thread…

Someone told us that it’s okay to be with a man

who’s cheated on us..

who’s still at home letting mama take care of him..

who has kids that he doesn’t take care of

who does drugs

who dresses like a buffoon

who doesn’t respect us as women

who doesn’t know where he came from

who has no goals other than becoming a rap artist (sorry bruh if it hasn’t happened by now the probability is slim to none)

well look.. it’s not alright..

CHILVARY IS NOT DEAD!

and the reason that men are getting away with these things is because we let them.. RBG said something to that effect a while ago and damn near got smacked down for even alluding to it…

the difference between our grandparents and us is that women back then knew how to step up to the plate.. . they knew how to make the best out of every situation and they demanded the respect .. love and compassion that they deserved from men…


No disrespect, but this sounds good and all, but you're really not saying anything. Or I should say, the things that you are saying are common sense amongst us sistas and brothas on this board. But do you talk to the young girl on the street and tell her these things? You're explaining one part of the problem- and with it sounding very unsupportive of your fellow sistas, but you're not explaining the solution. Yes a lot of black women do need to step it up, and yes a lot of black men need to step t up, but how and in what sense are you referring too? Of course our grandmothers and greatmothers and great-great grandmothers held it down, but that was also n a very different time and place, how do sistas in today's age do what you have put forth and balance that?

I will always be the #1 instigator on this bi-atch!  ;)

elegantpearl01

Re: State of Black Marriages....
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2005, 06:07:39 PM »
Common sense is uncommon...if more brothers/sisters thought what Reign was saying, there wouldn't be soo many articles on the state of the black family