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Author Topic: Tort Violation? You decide  (Read 1041 times)

mxpocc

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Re: Tort Violation? You decide
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2005, 11:36:45 AM »
the bus driver made his worst mistake by walking towards the back of the bus. however, the brown haired kid is definitely responsible for provocation, as he hopped up, said "hey mofo" and walked toward him--what else can be implied by such an action other than the kid is going to attack him?

I disagree. A young kid can't provoke a bus driver (meant to protect kids, I might add) into a choke hold. His action doesn't have to imply anything other than his disrespect. If the kid pulled a knife and walked towards the bus driver, he could reasonably restrain him. But to me, I don't see an assault on the bus driver here by simply name-calling and general lack of respect for authority. And it's certainly not assault to a point that justifies his response. The bus driver's lawyer, if he can get one, better start looking for some mental defect in his client if he has any case at all.

so a kid should be allowed to punch an adult without being restrained? the neck grabbing was out of hand and clearly in a fit of rage.

if the bus driver is proven to be mentally deranged, then the blame falls on the school district or the organization that hired him.

davidatfsu

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Re: Tort Violation? You decide
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2005, 11:47:31 AM »
the bus driver made his worst mistake by walking towards the back of the bus. however, the brown haired kid is definitely responsible for provocation, as he hopped up, said "hey mofo" and walked toward him--what else can be implied by such an action other than the kid is going to attack him?

I disagree. A young kid can't provoke a bus driver (meant to protect kids, I might add) into a choke hold. His action doesn't have to imply anything other than his disrespect. If the kid pulled a knife and walked towards the bus driver, he could reasonably restrain him. But to me, I don't see an assault on the bus driver here by simply name-calling and general lack of respect for authority. And it's certainly not assault to a point that justifies his response. The bus driver's lawyer, if he can get one, better start looking for some mental defect in his client if he has any case at all.

so a kid should be allowed to punch an adult without being restrained? the neck grabbing was out of hand and clearly in a fit of rage.

if the bus driver is proven to be mentally deranged, then the blame falls on the school district or the organization that hired him.

Did the kid punch the bus driver? I'm going on what I remember from seeing it a few times on the news. (Can't view video files here at work.) If the bus driver turned his back and then the kid said something and punched him, then certainly the driver could use reasonable force to restrain him.

Yeah, I think it's clear here that the guy is probably somewhat normal but had enough of those kids acting up and, like you said, had a fit of rage. And, I agree, I'm sure they'll sue him and the bus company or school district. Has bus driving been privitized in most districts nowadays?

snikrep

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Re: Tort Violation? You decide
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2005, 12:49:36 PM »
Stupid little punks got what they deserved... the fact that they can sue just makes me realize what a pathetic legal system we have.

Jumboshrimps

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Re: Tort Violation? You decide
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2005, 03:26:51 PM »
No lawyer of sound mind would sue the bus driver. He's almost guaranteed to have zero non-exempt property. I'd sue the school district for unspecified damages and convince the jury that these poor, special-ed, emotionally-disturbed, fragile young individuals were simply helpless victims of the school distric's blatent negligence and utter disregard for the safety of the children. Then I'd have my secretary dig up pictures of the bus driver when he got caught with child porn or shoplifting (of course this is the case- he's a BUS DRIVER). I'd put the bus driver on the stand and ask him to describe his work day. Then I'd ask him how long he's been doing it and how well he likes it. Then I'd ask him if he's ever had sex with a young boy. No matter what his response, I'd say nothing. It's impossible to answer a question like that and look good to a jury. No further questions, your honor.

Next, I'd call the school superintendent to the stand and ask her if she routinely hired child abusers. When she says "of course not", I'd pull up the file of all the other school employees who were criminals and ask her to explain why so many have a record (all janitors, teacher aids, and especially substitute teachers are criminals) No further questions, your honor.

Then I'd call the kid's mother and ask her how long her son has been E.D. When was he diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, Bipolar, whooping cough, etc. "How long has he been on Ritalin, Valium, purple pills, etc...?)

Next... sped teacher and counsellor. "Why wasn't johnny on a special bus for sped kids?" "Are you sure you're qualified to deal with this kind of little *&^%?" Does the school usually hire professionals with so little experience and few credentials?"

Next... other bus drivers. "Does the school district have a specific set of rules regarding bus safety which, if followed, would have prevented this situation?" "How often have you seen these rules violated?" "How often are the rules submitted to the students?"

Make the bus driver look like a slimeball first and make the district pay for his negligence. Then make the school district look directly negligent because they obviously knew that the school buses were a free-for-all and did nothing about it.

Make the kid look like a victim. Easy.

Then hire a shrink to explain to the jury how much the family is going to have to spend on therapy to fix little johnny's brain over this tramatic situation. And finally, ask the jury to make an example out of this school district, which so horribly exemplified the lack of concern for child safety which is all-too prevelent in schools today. And their behavior was shown on national television, no less! Outrageous. Make them pay so this doesn't happen again; so that parents and communities can regain trust in their school's ability to keep children safe.

ccorsi

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Re: Tort Violation? You decide
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2005, 04:05:45 PM »
As Chris Rock once said, "I'm not condoning what OJ did, but I understand it."

That kid absolutely got what he deserved - however the bus driver will have to pay for his actions.

Really is a Win-Lose-Win situation.  The kid wins a lesson in keeping his mouth shut - the bus driver loses some money - and we all win with an entertaining video clip.

C2

Bahamut

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Re: Tort Violation? You decide
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2005, 03:38:08 AM »
the bus driver made his worst mistake by walking towards the back of the bus. however, the brown haired kid is definitely responsible for provocation, as he hopped up, said "hey mofo" and walked toward him--what else can be implied by such an action other than the kid is going to attack him?

I disagree. A young kid can't provoke a bus driver (meant to protect kids, I might add) into a choke hold. His action doesn't have to imply anything other than his disrespect. If the kid pulled a knife and walked towards the bus driver, he could reasonably restrain him. But to me, I don't see an assault on the bus driver here by simply name-calling and general lack of respect for authority. And it's certainly not assault to a point that justifies his response. The bus driver's lawyer, if he can get one, better start looking for some mental defect in his client if he has any case at all.

Assault can be defined as placing the actor in reasonable apprehension of battery. Battery is offensive and/or harmful contact.

Though words themselves are usually not enough for an assault charge, words combined with actions in a certain atmosphere (such as getting in someone's face suddenly, shaking your fist, and saying "I'm going to knock your block off!") can be construed as such. For reference, see Restatement of Torts, 2nd Edition. I forget the section.  :P

Again, the bus driver can most certainly have battery charges levied against him by the parent/guardian of the children. I'm not sure who specifically would be sued in a civil case, though. I'm also unsure about the criminal charges.

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mikeb

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Re: Tort Violation? You decide
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2005, 07:52:55 AM »
Interesting...

Personaly, the kids should have been booked for disorderly conduct, while the bus driver should have been arrested for simple assault.

Now let me ask you this, would unlawful imprisonment/felonious restraint come into play when the one kid demanded to be let off the bus?

In my opinion, he is being held against his will which would at least be a mild case of unlawful imprisonment.

Share your thoughts.

1LBored

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Re: Tort Violation? You decide
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2005, 11:30:10 AM »
And after all that, forget that you sued in a contributory negligence state with caps on pain and suffering and punitive damages, and watch your whole case fall apart as your former client starts looking for a good malpractice lawyer.

 :P
Dont actually know what state this took place in, but I just liked my ending better.

No lawyer of sound mind would sue the bus driver. He's almost guaranteed to have zero non-exempt property. I'd sue the school district for unspecified damages and convince the jury that these poor, special-ed, emotionally-disturbed, fragile young individuals were simply helpless victims of the school distric's blatent negligence and utter disregard for the safety of the children. Then I'd have my secretary dig up pictures of the bus driver when he got caught with child porn or shoplifting (of course this is the case- he's a BUS DRIVER). I'd put the bus driver on the stand and ask him to describe his work day. Then I'd ask him how long he's been doing it and how well he likes it. Then I'd ask him if he's ever had sex with a young boy. No matter what his response, I'd say nothing. It's impossible to answer a question like that and look good to a jury. No further questions, your honor.

Next, I'd call the school superintendent to the stand and ask her if she routinely hired child abusers. When she says "of course not", I'd pull up the file of all the other school employees who were criminals and ask her to explain why so many have a record (all janitors, teacher aids, and especially substitute teachers are criminals) No further questions, your honor.

Then I'd call the kid's mother and ask her how long her son has been E.D. When was he diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, Bipolar, whooping cough, etc. "How long has he been on Ritalin, Valium, purple pills, etc...?)

Next... sped teacher and counsellor. "Why wasn't johnny on a special bus for sped kids?" "Are you sure you're qualified to deal with this kind of little sh*t?" Does the school usually hire professionals with so little experience and few credentials?"

Next... other bus drivers. "Does the school district have a specific set of rules regarding bus safety which, if followed, would have prevented this situation?" "How often have you seen these rules violated?" "How often are the rules submitted to the students?"

Make the bus driver look like a slimeball first and make the district pay for his negligence. Then make the school district look directly negligent because they obviously knew that the school buses were a free-for-all and did nothing about it.

Make the kid look like a victim. Easy.

Then hire a shrink to explain to the jury how much the family is going to have to spend on therapy to fix little johnny's brain over this tramatic situation. And finally, ask the jury to make an example out of this school district, which so horribly exemplified the lack of concern for child safety which is all-too prevelent in schools today. And their behavior was shown on national television, no less! Outrageous. Make them pay so this doesn't happen again; so that parents and communities can regain trust in their school's ability to keep children safe.

davidatfsu

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Re: Tort Violation? You decide
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2005, 08:33:26 AM »
Interesting...

Personaly, the kids should have been booked for disorderly conduct, while the bus driver should have been arrested for simple assault.

Now let me ask you this, would unlawful imprisonment/felonious restraint come into play when the one kid demanded to be let off the bus?

In my opinion, he is being held against his will which would at least be a mild case of unlawful imprisonment.

Share your thoughts.

Again, I can't review the tape. But if the kid demanded to be let off after he was assaulted, then false imprisonment would be almost a moot point. Wanting to leave the bus after being assualted like that would be an ordinary response. But I suppose that on top of the other charges, the bus driver could be liable for false imprisonment. Ordinarily though, I would think it would be difficult to convince a judge or jury that a bus driver can't use reasonable restraint to keep kids on the bus. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I don't think kids can demand to be let off school buses.

momofthree

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Re: Tort Violation? You decide
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2005, 09:20:30 AM »
You know someone has to drive buses.  To suggest that the man is into kiddie porn or shoplifting because he has a low-wage job is horrible.  We don't know the history of these two juvenile deliquents.  If you are going to fight then you have to endure the consequenses.  They are fully responsible for their actions.  I think the problem with our society is that punks like these can say "oh oh the bus driver grabbed me.  he's a big mean man,' and sue him.  My dad is a teacher and has had to break up serious fights at school.  We always worry that one of these punks is going to hurt him if he has to step in.  He's a diabetic with heart disease.  But he's 6'2 and a big man.  I'm sure he could be painted as a horrible person.  THese guys (teachers, busdrives, cops) never know which kid might havae a weapon today or tomorrow. 
You want me to go all the way up there, to a Yankee school, just so I can come over every weekend and practice "free love" with you?