Law School Discussion

what is black culture?

HBCU.EDU

Re: what is black culture?
« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2005, 02:08:33 PM »
Saying "on the other hand" means nothing. Your original statement was a contradiction but that's ok. You have to be more specific when you post messages. You have to say "In corporate America, mainstream culture is white culture" However, I would still take issue with that. Let me ask you this: What do you mean by saying that corporate culture is white culture? Isn't it American culture? Give me something specific regarding "white culture" that is so corporate.



“But your culture is outside of the mainstream. That's because it's a minority culture. There's nothing racist about that. On the other hand hip-hop and R&B dominate rock music right now 10 to 1 with kids. Take a look at the billboard top 10 and see how many are rock or country vs how many are rap and R&B.”

Is this not a contradiction?


Like I said, "on the other hand". But that's only with youth culture. There's no denying that rap culture, which is generally associated with black culture, is prevalent with the MTV generation. But in the grand scheme of the United States, white culture clearly dominates. Corporate America, which is generally associated with white culture, is the culture that rules the day. And my point is that that has less to do with hostility towards black culture and more to do with the sheer number of people behind it.

Re: what is black culture?
« Reply #61 on: May 19, 2005, 02:14:11 PM »
Elvis certainly copied Bessie Smith but that's a history lesson for another day..


you see david..that statement you made about corporate culture being white culture.. is exactly what pissed me off in the latino thread a few weeks ago..

i'm tired of people adopting the mentality that just because some white people are in more powerful positions that some black people..that that means that the culture is white..

since the CEO of American Express is black does that make American Express a black credit card?

HBCU.EDU

Re: what is black culture?
« Reply #62 on: May 19, 2005, 02:22:54 PM »
James Bell's promotion to CEO makes Boeing the largest U.S. company with an African-American CEO.

Franklin Raines held the distinction until his ouster at Fannie Mae in December in the wake of accounting irregularities. Fannie Mae is No. 20 on the latest Fortune 500, which ranks companies by annual revenue.

Five mega-companies in the top 100 U.S. corporations have African-American CEOs.

Boeing, Bell, 56, is interim CEO and is expected to return as Boeing's chief financial officer once a permanent CEO is named.

Time Warner. Richard Parsons, 57, became CEO in 2002.

These Black men are simply corporate. Nothing has to be stereotypically black or white about them. One thing is for sure and that is that they follow the “corporate culture” of their specific company. I’ve worked in corporate America for many years. The “corporate culture” has nothing to do with the race of the company regardless of it being majority white or not. It had everything to do with the location the company was in and the industry It was a part of.   




“But your culture is outside of the mainstream. That's because it's a minority culture. There's nothing racist about that. On the other hand hip-hop and R&B dominate rock music right now 10 to 1 with kids. Take a look at the billboard top 10 and see how many are rock or country vs how many are rap and R&B.”

Is this not a contradiction?


Like I said, "on the other hand". But that's only with youth culture. There's no denying that rap culture, which is generally associated with black culture, is prevalent with the MTV generation. But in the grand scheme of the United States, white culture clearly dominates. Corporate America, which is generally associated with white culture, is the culture that rules the day. And my point is that that has less to do with hostility towards black culture and more to do with the sheer number of people behind it.

Re: what is black culture?
« Reply #63 on: May 19, 2005, 02:25:15 PM »
Youth culture??  :D that's funny.. Michael Eric Dyson has presented may different speeches regarding hip hop culture..and has even written books regarding it...Hip hop wasn't started by kids.. it wasn't begun by 50 cent and the like...

Cornell West was cast down at Harvard for coming out with a poetry cd...we all know that he isn't a teenager either..





Like I said, "on the other hand". But that's only with youth culture. There's no denying that rap culture, which is generally associated with black culture, is prevalent with the MTV generation. But in the grand scheme of the United States, white culture clearly dominates. Corporate America, which is generally associated with white culture, is the culture that rules the day. And my point is that that has less to do with hostility towards black culture and more to do with the sheer number of people behind it.

Re: what is black culture?
« Reply #64 on: May 19, 2005, 02:36:32 PM »
Saying "on the other hand" means nothing. Your original statement was a contradiction but that's ok. You have to be more specific when you post messages. You have to say "In corporate America, mainstream culture is white culture" However, I would still take issue with that. Let me ask you this: What do you mean by saying that corporate culture is white culture? Isn't it American culture? Give me something specific regarding "white culture" that is so corporate.



“But your culture is outside of the mainstream. That's because it's a minority culture. There's nothing racist about that. On the other hand hip-hop and R&B dominate rock music right now 10 to 1 with kids. Take a look at the billboard top 10 and see how many are rock or country vs how many are rap and R&B.”

Is this not a contradiction?


Like I said, "on the other hand". But that's only with youth culture. There's no denying that rap culture, which is generally associated with black culture, is prevalent with the MTV generation. But in the grand scheme of the United States, white culture clearly dominates. Corporate America, which is generally associated with white culture, is the culture that rules the day. And my point is that that has less to do with hostility towards black culture and more to do with the sheer number of people behind it.

I'm not sure what statement you think was a contradiction. That black culture is outside of the mainstream because it's the minority? You disagree, but that doesn't make it a contradiction. Unless I'm pointing to the wrong statement.

Maybe we're confusing too many "cultures" here that probably overlap a lot. Let's put aside the influence in the youth for a moment... I won't deny for a second that the Rolling Stones would not exist without the influence of black music (gospel, jazz, etc.) But I wouldn't say the Rolling Stones are part of black culture. I've been to a Rolling Stones concert, and I could count on my hand how many black people were there. So I guess my point is that historical influence is one thing; mainstream presence or domination is another.

And what dominates American culture is money as controlled by corporations. Take 10 CEOs and ask them about what influences and excites them outside of making money. You'd hear yachting, Bill Gates, Adam Smith, golf... That's their culture. Move further down the ladder and you'd see that most whites working in cubicles all day for those CEOs are wishing for lives influenced by those things. So in that sense, nothing really distinguishes white culture from corporate America.

Here's where I'll probably get flamed, and you can make all the assumptions you want to about me.

Between the average 18 year old white kid and the average 18 year old black kid, the goals are the same: happiness, security, etc. But the means to those goals are looked at differently in white and black culture. To the white kid it's get good grades, go to a good college, get a good job, get a good house, have good kids and grandkids because that's the game you play for "success" in America. Most black kids aren't afforded the opportunities to play the game in order to be successful (again, I use that term loosely). Not only that, gangster rap only encourages black kids not to play the game.

Honestly, I don't know what the hell we were even discussing to begin with. I think I'm through with uber-intense debate through the bulletin board. This would be a much more interesting and lucid discussion if we were all in person. I think everyone would agree with that.

HBCU.EDU

Re: what is black culture?
« Reply #65 on: May 19, 2005, 02:44:07 PM »
Saying "on the other hand" means nothing. Your original statement was a contradiction but that's ok. You have to be more specific when you post messages. You have to say "In corporate America, mainstream culture is white culture" However, I would still take issue with that. Let me ask you this: What do you mean by saying that corporate culture is white culture? Isn't it American culture? Give me something specific regarding "white culture" that is so corporate.



“But your culture is outside of the mainstream. That's because it's a minority culture. There's nothing racist about that. On the other hand hip-hop and R&B dominate rock music right now 10 to 1 with kids. Take a look at the billboard top 10 and see how many are rock or country vs how many are rap and R&B.”

Is this not a contradiction?


Like I said, "on the other hand". But that's only with youth culture. There's no denying that rap culture, which is generally associated with black culture, is prevalent with the MTV generation. But in the grand scheme of the United States, white culture clearly dominates. Corporate America, which is generally associated with white culture, is the culture that rules the day. And my point is that that has less to do with hostility towards black culture and more to do with the sheer number of people behind it.

I'm not sure what statement you think was a contradiction. That black culture is outside of the mainstream because it's the minority? You disagree, but that doesn't make it a contradiction. Unless I'm pointing to the wrong statement.

Maybe we're confusing too many "cultures" here that probably overlap a lot. Let's put aside the influence in the youth for a moment... I won't deny for a second that the Rolling Stones would not exist without the influence of black music (gospel, jazz, etc.) But I wouldn't say the Rolling Stones are part of black culture. I've been to a Rolling Stones concert, and I could count on my hand how many black people were there. So I guess my point is that historical influence is one thing; mainstream presence or domination is another.

And what dominates American culture is money as controlled by corporations. Take 10 CEOs and ask them about what influences and excites them outside of making money. You'd hear yachting, Bill Gates, Adam Smith, golf... That's their culture. Move further down the ladder and you'd see that most whites working in cubicles all day for those CEOs are wishing for lives influenced by those things. So in that sense, nothing really distinguishes white culture from corporate America.

Here's where I'll probably get flamed, and you can make all the assumptions you want to about me.

Between the average 18 year old white kid and the average 18 year old black kid, the goals are the same: happiness, security, etc. But the means to those goals are looked at differently in white and black culture. To the white kid it's get good grades, go to a good college, get a good job, get a good house, have good kids and grandkids because that's the game you play for "success" in America. Most black kids aren't afforded the opportunities to play the game in order to be successful (again, I use that term loosely). Not only that, gangster rap only encourages black kids not to play the game.

Honestly, I don't know what the hell we were even discussing to begin with. I think I'm through with uber-intense debate through the bulletin board. This would be a much more interesting and lucid discussion if we were all in person. I think everyone would agree with that.

"So in that sense, nothing really distinguishes white culture from corporate America."

So:

White culture= wealth
Black culture= poverty

Is that the case?

Re: what is black culture?
« Reply #66 on: May 19, 2005, 02:45:38 PM »
we need to get some of the Latinos to speak on this as well... ::)

lex19

Re: what is black culture?
« Reply #67 on: May 19, 2005, 02:49:54 PM »
david, you are right about this convo, and so you know there's a whole black middle & upper class that you've never probably heard of, b/c that's not going to get people to tune into the 6 o'clock news......not every black youth is apart of the stereotype/ connotation you recently wrote about, and let's not forget that the majority of whites in this country are poor & uneducated:


"Between the average 18 year old white kid and the average 18 year old black kid, the goals are the same: happiness, security, etc. But the means to those goals are looked at differently in white and black culture. To the white kid it's get good grades, go to a good college, get a good job, get a good house, have good kids and grandkids because that's the game you play for "success" in America. Most black kids aren't afforded the opportunities to play the game in order to be successful (again, I use that term loosely). Not only that, gangster rap only encourages black kids not to play the game." - davidatfsu

HBCU.EDU

Re: what is black culture?
« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2005, 02:50:58 PM »
There are a hell of a lot more poor whites in this country than corporate (rich) whites. Are poor whites a part of “white culture” if they are not involved with corporate America? 

Re: what is black culture?
« Reply #69 on: May 19, 2005, 02:51:24 PM »
speak on it..

david, you are right about this convo, and so you know there's a whole black middle & upper class that you've never probably heard of, b/c that's not going to get people to tune into the 6 o'clock news......not every black youth is apart of the stereotype connotation you recently wrote about, and let's not forget that the majority of whites in this country are poor & uneducated:


"Between the average 18 year old white kid and the average 18 year old black kid, the goals are the same: happiness, security, etc. But the means to those goals are looked at differently in white and black culture. To the white kid it's get good grades, go to a good college, get a good job, get a good house, have good kids and grandkids because that's the game you play for "success" in America. Most black kids aren't afforded the opportunities to play the game in order to be successful (again, I use that term loosely). Not only that, gangster rap only encourages black kids not to play the game." - davidatfsu