Law School Discussion

wisdom of dubya

St. Shaun

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Re: wisdom of dubya
« Reply #80 on: May 17, 2005, 10:43:39 PM »
so you think that jobs immediately became available when Clinton took office and immediately unavailable when clinton left?  fat chance.  he was just lucky the bubble didn't pop a bit sooner or the attack didn't come on his watch (although the lack/inaccuracies of intelligence gathering during this period certainly contributed thereto)

There's no question that the Bush's favor big business over the American worker.  Not that Clinton didn't either, but he wasn't nearly as bad.  I'm not saying that Clinton was perfect, he wasn't, but it's hard to deny the power that American workers had during those years.  The economy was really humming.  Something like 22 million jobs were created during Clinton's years.  I think Bush is just now getting past even.
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You need to remember that this recession started under Clinton.  Your not comparing apples to apples.  Big business is the American worker.  I'm not going to defend all of Bush or Clintons policys.  They both have put restraints on the free market, which isn't good for anyone. 

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Re: wisdom of dubya
« Reply #81 on: May 17, 2005, 10:47:15 PM »
quite possibly, I was just poking at the map... which does not reflect proportions of voters.  so you praise this map that show's upwards of 80%, where is is nowhere near that.  that's all I'm saying.

and I also think mandate is a dumb word.  It doesn't make sense to me.  It's as if you're gleening more information from the results of the election than just the result.  I think that's messed up.

no... I'm just saying that the supposed mandate is not as strong as perceived.

I'm not quite sure how to reform the college.  nebraska and maine(is it maine... or NH... or VT) are an interesting test... but they kinda have never exercized that ability

but it's certainly greater than any mandate in recent history (as represented by the size of the win and the gains in the legislature)



J D

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Re: wisdom of dubya
« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2005, 10:50:00 PM »
so you think that jobs immediately became available when Clinton took office and immediately unavailable when clinton left?  fat chance.  he was just lucky the bubble didn't pop a bit sooner or the attack didn't come on his watch (although the lack/inaccuracies of intelligence gathering during this period certainly contributed thereto)

There's no question that the Bush's favor big business over the American worker.  Not that Clinton didn't either, but he wasn't nearly as bad.  I'm not saying that Clinton was perfect, he wasn't, but it's hard to deny the power that American workers had during those years.  The economy was really humming.  Something like 22 million jobs were created during Clinton's years.  I think Bush is just now getting past even.
Quote

You need to remember that this recession started under Clinton.  Your not comparing apples to apples.  Big business is the American worker.  I'm not going to defend all of Bush or Clintons policys.  They both have put restraints on the free market, which isn't good for anyone. 

Call me crazy. but I remember this recession officially starting (as indicated by the observation of two consecutive quarters of decline) around April 2001, well after January 20 of that year.

InVinoVeritas

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Re: wisdom of dubya
« Reply #83 on: May 17, 2005, 10:51:01 PM »
but it's certainly greater than any mandate in recent history (as represented by the size of the win and the gains in the legislature)

the size of the win wasn't that large.  in fact, all in all, it rested in the hands of a relatively small portion of the population of ohio.

and as to gains in the legislature, particularly in the house, keep in mind many of those gains were wrought through some of the worse political gerrymandering in history.  that's not so much as sign of a mandate that it is a sign of political manipulation.

PresClay_00

Re: wisdom of dubya
« Reply #84 on: May 17, 2005, 10:51:15 PM »
quite possibly, I was just poking at the map... which does not reflect proportions of voters.  so you praise this map that show's upwards of 80%, where is is nowhere near that.  that's all I'm saying.

and I also think mandate is a dumb word.  It doesn't make sense to me.  It's as if you're gleening more information from the results of the election than just the result.  I think that's messed up.


i think the best thing about that map is how it depicts the concentration of liberal voters in comparison to the rest of the country. granted, it's also important to know that those are also densely populated areas. 

as for mandate, it's prob a bit strong, but besides looking at the results and saying "we won, we won big, our party won big = the people on a whole agree with us" what can you take from it?

St. Shaun

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Re: wisdom of dubya
« Reply #85 on: May 17, 2005, 10:52:34 PM »
but it's certainly greater than any mandate in recent history (as represented by the size of the win and the gains in the legislature)

the size of the win wasn't that large.  in fact, all in all, it rested in the hands of a relatively small portion of the population of ohio.

and as to gains in the legislature, particularly in the house, keep in mind many of those gains were wrought through some of the worse political gerrymandering in history.  that's not so much as sign of a mandate that it is a sign of political manipulation.

Oh please.  Don't get me started.  The Gerrymanering goes both ways.

Re: wisdom of dubya
« Reply #86 on: May 17, 2005, 10:53:11 PM »
The recession did begin under Clinton.  But, the cruel joke that is the labor market, which has not really rebounded under Bush, can be laid at the feet of Prez. Bush.

Re: wisdom of dubya
« Reply #87 on: May 17, 2005, 10:56:12 PM »
Let us not forget that Clinton had a Republican Congress for 6 of his 8 years.  There was good reform including Welfare Reform in those years.  We need to cut out the pork and make sure we get more tax cuts.  Taxes suck!  Look at the growth in lower taxed regions like the South and the shift away from the Northeast Region like New York.

And no matter what people say Bush started his term with a recession and luckily with his three major tax cuts for EVERYONE we are getting back to normal.  It was a bubble just waiting to bust. 

PresClay_00

Re: wisdom of dubya
« Reply #88 on: May 17, 2005, 10:58:13 PM »
but it's certainly greater than any mandate in recent history (as represented by the size of the win and the gains in the legislature)

the size of the win wasn't that large.  in fact, all in all, it rested in the hands of a relatively small portion of the population of ohio.

and as to gains in the legislature, particularly in the house, keep in mind many of those gains were wrought through some of the worse political gerrymandering in history.  that's not so much as sign of a mandate that it is a sign of political manipulation.

what about the few in PA that could have gone the other way, etc etc.  He won, clear and fair.  as for gerrymandering, it's def a two way street

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Re: wisdom of dubya
« Reply #89 on: May 17, 2005, 10:59:57 PM »
granted, it's also important to know that those are also densely populated areas. 

hell yeah
it's hard to see this map but this is real