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RufusTheStuntBum

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Re: Widener Grad takes 27k/yr job with firm
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2005, 01:59:44 AM »

What is missing is the following information:  where was the job? If you made $27K in Northern Pensylvania, that would translate to working in LA and making $80k after you consider housing prices. (Know someone making $30k whose house, if in LA, couldn't be touched for under $1.5 million.) Graduating from a 4th Tier school and making the equivalent of $80K? Not bad.
Would you take $27K if you had a 50/50 chance of making partner? Would you take a job clerking at the Supreme Court for $42k? Who knows what he expects to get out of it.

FYI:  Not all of LA is expensive.  Use a better example if you want to claim lving somewhere is cheap.  If you go 15-20 miles inland you can buy a nice house for $250k.

$27k - taxes is something like $22k.  If you have $100k in debt you will owe upwards of $1k/month, leaving you with $10k/year to live on.  Have fun.  If someone is considering going to a school where they will make less than $60k coming out I would seriously advise them to do some cost/benefit analysis.  If you plan to do PI then you will probably get LRAP and can make less.  Getting PI jobs requires a highly ranked school so someone doing PI would probably have the option of making six figures anyway. 

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Re: Widener Grad takes 27k/yr job with firm
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2005, 02:07:39 AM »
I see the debt as the biggest concern here.
I wouldn't care so much what I make if it weren't for the fact that I will borrow $100-150k to get there.

While I am going to law school with a specific goal in mind, I am fairly certain I could get a relatively high-paying if I HAD to. I expect to be making a moderate salary by choice, not because I will not be able to get a firm job.
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hilljack

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Re: Widener Grad takes 27k/yr job with firm
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2005, 02:12:51 AM »

What is missing is the following information:  where was the job? If you made $27K in Northern Pensylvania, that would translate to working in LA and making $80k after you consider housing prices. (Know someone making $30k whose house, if in LA, couldn't be touched for under $1.5 million.) Graduating from a 4th Tier school and making the equivalent of $80K? Not bad.
Would you take $27K if you had a 50/50 chance of making partner? Would you take a job clerking at the Supreme Court for $42k? Who knows what he expects to get out of it.

FYI:  Not all of LA is expensive.  Use a better example if you want to claim lving somewhere is cheap.  If you go 15-20 miles inland you can buy a nice house for $250k.

$27k - taxes is something like $22k.  If you have $100k in debt you will owe upwards of $1k/month, leaving you with $10k/year to live on.  Have fun.  If someone is considering going to a school where they will make less than $60k coming out I would seriously advise them to do some cost/benefit analysis.  If you plan to do PI then you will probably get LRAP and can make less.  Getting PI jobs requires a highly ranked school so someone doing PI would probably have the option of making six figures anyway. 

First, I don't know about your tax figures, they seem a little high.  Also, if you make 22 after tax, I doubt you will have to pay over half of it back in loan repayment each year.

trust

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Re: Widener Grad takes 27k/yr job with firm
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2005, 02:17:38 AM »
i hope people aren't shocked by this.  thousands of people graduate every year with a JD, and many of them will never get a legal job.  the market is competitive.  biglaw is a lofty goal that few law students will ever get. 

i think the 4th tier schools need to be put in perspective.  the northeast is saturated with plenty of prestigious law schools.  why would a law firm hire a suffolk grad when there is Harvard, BU, and BC around the corner?  similarly, why would a firm hire a widener or temple grad when Penn is right there in Philadelphia?  in the midwest, it is a different story.  take UALR - very few grads from prestigious law schools want to work in little rock or arkansas.  true, there isn't really biglaw in arkansas, but there are plenty of government jobs that pay $37k a year +.  a resident of AR that wants to work in AR is making a smart move by paying in-state tuition.

i know i went off topic, but the key here is debt.  if you were not born into money, then minimize your debt.  most law schools exist for the sole purpose of raking in money.

BoscoBreaux

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Re: Widener Grad takes 27k/yr job with firm
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2005, 03:36:02 AM »

What is missing is the following information:  where was the job? If you made $27K in Northern Pensylvania, that would translate to working in LA and making $80k after you consider housing prices. (Know someone making $30k whose house, if in LA, couldn't be touched for under $1.5 million.) Graduating from a 4th Tier school and making the equivalent of $80K? Not bad.
Would you take $27K if you had a 50/50 chance of making partner? Would you take a job clerking at the Supreme Court for $42k? Who knows what he expects to get out of it.

FYI:  Not all of LA is expensive.  Use a better example if you want to claim lving somewhere is cheap.  If you go 15-20 miles inland you can buy a nice house for $250k.

$27k - taxes is something like $22k.  If you have $100k in debt you will owe upwards of $1k/month, leaving you with $10k/year to live on.  Have fun.  If someone is considering going to a school where they will make less than $60k coming out I would seriously advise them to do some cost/benefit analysis.  If you plan to do PI then you will probably get LRAP and can make less.  Getting PI jobs requires a highly ranked school so someone doing PI would probably have the option of making six figures anyway. 

Actually, the example was perfect.  If you make $80K in LA, you will have as much money left over at the end of the month as someone who makes $27K, but lives in Lancaster PA, Clarksburg WV, etc.  If you make $27K and they are taking $22K in taxes, you should find another tax preparer/accountant.  Loans are a constant, and thus aren't of relevance to the calculation.

 But some clarification is in order: I meant Los Angeles, California, not whichever Los Angeles of which you speak.

If you can find me a house in a decent neighborhood for under $300K let me know, I'll buy it (note: median homes are not exactly homes people who go to law school aspire to usually, and even these are borderline at best in LA). Then again, I'll certainly be outbid by the HUNDREDS of other persons who would put down an offer within hours. Even homes in  Riverside/San Bern, a cozy 2 hour commute during rush hour, sell for considerably more.  Of course, not ALL homes in LA are expensive--plenty of homes become available in South Central relatively cheap given the attrition rate, so to speak (gunshots, crack deals gone bad, etc.).

But for those who get psyched by BigLaw in CA, here is reality (not nearly as bad as Manhattan, but still pretty brutal):
    
Median Price   

Calif.
$471,620    

Los Angeles   
$473,550    

Orange County   
$663,600    

Riverside/S. Bern.   
$342,120    

Sacramento   
$351,700    

San Diego   
$580,860    

RufusTheStuntBum

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Re: Widener Grad takes 27k/yr job with firm
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2005, 04:27:44 AM »

Actually, the example was perfect.  If you make $80K in LA, you will have as much money left over at the end of the month as someone who makes $27K, but lives in Lancaster PA, Clarksburg WV, etc.  If you make $27K and they are taking $22K in taxes, you should find another tax preparer/accountant.  Loans are a constant, and thus aren't of relevance to the calculation.

 But some clarification is in order: I meant Los Angeles, California, not whichever Los Angeles of which you speak.

If you can find me a house in a decent neighborhood for under $300K let me know, I'll buy it (note: median homes are not exactly homes people who go to law school aspire to usually, and even these are borderline at best in LA). Then again, I'll certainly be outbid by the HUNDREDS of other persons who would put down an offer within hours. Even homes in  Riverside/San Bern, a cozy 2 hour commute during rush hour, sell for considerably more.  Of course, not ALL homes in LA are expensive--plenty of homes become available in South Central relatively cheap given the attrition rate, so to speak (gunshots, crack deals gone bad, etc.).

But for those who get psyched by BigLaw in CA, here is reality (not nearly as bad as Manhattan, but still pretty brutal):
    
Median Price   

Calif.
$471,620    

Los Angeles   
$473,550    

Orange County   
$663,600    

Riverside/S. Bern.   
$342,120    

Sacramento   
$351,700    

San Diego   
$580,860    


That is $27k minus taxes is ~$22k.  If you can't make at least $60k or go to a school with good LRAP, don't go.  You'll go bankrupt trying to payoff the loans. 

Please give some calculations to support your assertion that making $27k anywhere is equal to $80k in LA.  And no, you don't need to have a $500k mortgage to live in the LA area. 

Where do you live?  I live in San Diego.  You don't need to buy a house for $475k to live in the LA metro area.  There are plenty of suburbs to the east that are cheaper.  Just looking at the city alone is not going to give you a real picture of the housing market.  LA sucks anyway.


militarygrade

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Re: Widener Grad takes 27k/yr job with firm
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2005, 04:48:10 AM »

That is $27k minus taxes is ~$22k.  If you can't make at least $60k or go to a school with good LRAP, don't go.  You'll go bankrupt trying to payoff the loans. 

Please give some calculations to support your assertion that making $27k anywhere is equal to $80k in LA.  And no, you don't need to have a $500k mortgage to live in the LA area. 

Where do you live?  I live in San Diego.  You don't need to buy a house for $475k to live in the LA metro area.  There are plenty of suburbs to the east that are cheaper.  Just looking at the city alone is not going to give you a real picture of the housing market.  LA sucks anyway.



You have no idea what you are talking about.  I live 55 miles inland of LA.  You cannot, simply CANNOT, buy a house over 1000sq ft, that meets residential code, or is not a severe fixer-upper, for $250,000.  The cheapest house you can find around these parts is about $315,000, and that's for a crap crap crap house.  Like I said, I'm 55 miles inland, and for every 10 miles you get closer to LA, expect about $15,000 added to housing prices. 

You stated you live in San Diego - spout all you want about San Diego home prices.  But you obviously have no clue what houses in the LA area cost, so perhaps you should shut up and stop speaking like a know-it-all d00shbag.


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Re: Widener Grad takes 27k/yr job with firm
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2005, 09:14:25 AM »
"similarly, why would a firm hire a widener or temple grad when Penn is right there in Philadelphia?"

Gee - I don't know.  Maybe because Penn only graduates a small percentage of the demand for lawyers any given year?  Temple, Villanova, Rutgers, etc. all place graduates well - and Philly is a good sized market.

Of course, there are some T4s that are money grubbing whores, but certainly not all.  Let's try to refrain from asinine generalizations.

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Re: Widener Grad takes 27k/yr job with firm
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2005, 09:40:03 AM »
I got a full-tuition scholarship from Widener (and plan to hold onto it with a white-knuckle clutch, thank you).  If I can graduate with little or no debt, I'd be more than happy to take a $50K job doing something I enjoy.  I was making $27K as a legal secretary, and I would look into a gov't job before going that low in the private sector as an attorney.  Heck, I'm going to law school to make a better living for myself and my family.   
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jdw112

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Re: Widener Grad takes 27k/yr job with firm
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2005, 09:40:35 AM »
I know that some people want to be lawyers and have no regard for money, but this is insane. The only way I could justify a legal job at 27K was if I got a free ride through law school, and I was independently well-off/wealthy. I love the law, but I would not invest 100,000+ in an education only to make less than I could have made working as an administrative assistant, paralegal, or even a waiter. I despise ttt's, but the students there are still humans. Even the guy last in his class at Cooley deserves better than 27K, seriously.