WHAT???!!!!!

[dividebyzero]

while there may be no direct evidence that the lenient sentences were driven by racial considerations, based on the town's long history of racial tension, it's difficult to believe that the victim wasn't marginalized at least partly because he was black.

Normally, that would be a logical concession to make; the fact that there's no "direct" evidence thus far that the lenient sentences were driven by racial considerations...

*But* this is EAST TEXAS we're talking about here...a part of the country that has had nothing BUT problems with rampant racism (anyone remember Jasper, TX 1998?). Any incident that has even a *slight* apperance of racial malfeasance has to be considered at face value.

After Jasper, Texas's black community in the Eastern part of the state were ready to set it ablaze...unless someone has enough sense to officially question these ridiculous sentences, I don't imagine things are going to be pretty this time.

[InVinoVeritas]

while there may be no direct evidence that the lenient sentences were driven by racial considerations, based on the town's long history of racial tension, it's difficult to believe that the victim wasn't marginalized at least partly because he was black.

Normally, that would be a logical concession to make; the fact that there's no "direct" evidence thus far that the lenient sentences were driven by racial considerations...

*But* this is EAST TEXAS we're talking about here...a part of the country that has had nothing BUT problems with rampant racism (anyone remember Jasper, TX 1998?). Any incident that has even a *slight* apperance of racial malfeasance has to be considered at face value.

After Jasper, Texas's black community in the Eastern part of the state were ready to set it ablaze...unless someone has enough sense to officially question these ridiculous sentences, I don't imagine things are going to be pretty this time.

that's exactly my point.  when racism is pervasive and entrenched enough, it becomes difficult to decouple overt rascist acts from "normal" behavior.

[philibusters]

I tried to make clear that in my original post that it was likely race played a major part, I didn't mean to sound like I didn't think that, I just wondered if there was evidence.  Second, fighting entrenched racism is beyond anyone, especially mere lawyers.  But we are going to be lawyers...so when I said what should be done, it might be better to come at it from a legal angle.  What can be done to remedy the legal situation, even if the causing factor in the incident itself is somewhat beyond any lawyer or politicians control.  In law school you will probably deal with cases with that, aberrations, where you must be creative to remedy the sitation.  Could legislative guidelines for the courts help, could a equal protection clause reading be applied to victims so that they could sue the state for compensation, making judges more catious of racially sensitive cases., I mean those things are super general in the first one and silly for the latter, but what can be done?

[philibusters]

oh, and I shouldn't go here cause it really not related to thread, but I was just wondering if anybody else saw the O'Reily factor when O'Reily was like blacks are treated wrongly in the justice systems.  There is so much black on black crime and the justice system doesn't give the victim enough compensation when it gives out light sentences to these black criminals.  Except he said it in a more political correct way and innocent way at that.  But what an a-hole on the one hand, totally making a bogus argument for tougher sentences for people who commit street crimes (mostly minorities),while avoiding calling for tougher sentences for white collar crimes, all the while doing it the name of racial justice.  On the other hand how ingenious

[psr13]

I feel fortunate that they don't stand for that sh!t in the county where I live and work (and plan to work as a prosecutor.)

In my county, those men would be in prison for years ... no plea bargains no light sentences.

And giffy, I believe you are right. If the perpetrators of the crime were black and the victim white, the results would be much different.

And people say racism isn't a problem anymore.

What about times when white people are given higher sentences when the victim is black even though race had nothing to do with it. Then there are the times when black people are not charged for hate crimes when their victims are white and it is obvious that the assault was partly because of race. I'm not saying that these crimes are the only ones that happen, but they are all too true. When three black guys jump a white guy and nearly beat him to death while constantly calling him a cracker and making other racial slurs those men, sorry boys, should be charged with a hate crime. That is not usually what happens though.

[dbgirl]

PSR -- name me a case where this has happened -- seriously.

You REALLY think there is some place where black people are "getting off easy?" for beating and killing white people?
And how are these cases such "obvious" hate crimes?

[_BP_]

I feel fortunate that they don't stand for that sh!t in the county where I live and work (and plan to work as a prosecutor.)

In my county, those men would be in prison for years ... no plea bargains no light sentences.

And giffy, I believe you are right. If the perpetrators of the crime were black and the victim white, the results would be much different.

And people say racism isn't a problem anymore.

What about times when white people are given higher sentences when the victim is black even though race had nothing to do with it. Then there are the times when black people are not charged for hate crimes when their victims are white and it is obvious that the assault was partly because of race. I'm not saying that these crimes are the only ones that happen, but they are all too true. When three black guys jump a white guy and nearly beat him to death while constantly calling him a cracker and making other racial slurs those men, sorry boys, should be charged with a hate crime. That is not usually what happens though.

Death Penalty stats but relevant nonetheless, if you want to take a look at the judicial system and disparity in sentences.  If you think for a minute that the judicial system somehow caters to blacks, you need to wake up.

1)   98% of chief District Attorneys in death penalty states are white.
2)   Blacks are four times as likely to receive the death penalty than whites for the same crime.
3)   80% of the cases where the death penalty is administered is in cases where a white person is murdered, though whites only account for 50% of the murder victims.
4)   The odds of receiving the death penalty rises by 350% if the victim is white.

[NathanB]

Where did you get the article, Vino?

[InVinoVeritas]

I feel fortunate that they don't stand for that sh!t in the county where I live and work (and plan to work as a prosecutor.)

In my county, those men would be in prison for years ... no plea bargains no light sentences.

And giffy, I believe you are right. If the perpetrators of the crime were black and the victim white, the results would be much different.

And people say racism isn't a problem anymore.

What about times when white people are given higher sentences when the victim is black even though race had nothing to do with it. Then there are the times when black people are not charged for hate crimes when their victims are white and it is obvious that the assault was partly because of race. I'm not saying that these crimes are the only ones that happen, but they are all too true. When three black guys jump a white guy and nearly beat him to death while constantly calling him a cracker and making other racial slurs those men, sorry boys, should be charged with a hate crime. That is not usually what happens though.

if what you're alleging actually happens, it still provides no excuse for the injustice that occurred in this case.  it makes no sense and is incompatible with the notion of justice to say that because the justice system fails one party then it's ok for it to fail another later party.  everyone, black, white, brown, etc., should have faith that the "system" administers justice fairly to all.

Where did you get the article, Vino?

i initially read about it on a blog somewhere.  the actual article came from the chicago tribune, i believe.  (several newspapers reported about the incident.  you can do a google search with the town's name and the victim's name to find one of the articles.)

[_BP_]

IN VINO you are smarter than you look in that avatar