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Author Topic: In 2010, will FSU have surpassed UF?  (Read 24663 times)

iLukeisamazing

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Re: In 2010, will FSU have surpassed UF?
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2007, 08:49:18 AM »
What I don't understand is why FSU has such a high number of applicants, as compared to other schools in it's same type.

FSU: 3,300 applicants

UF: around 2,000 applicants

Tennessee: 1,400 applicants

These are three comparably ranked, large, public, state schools. Why is it that the lowest of the 3 (rankings wise) would get the most applicants? I don't quite understand.

yoyodawg

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Re: In 2010, will FSU have surpassed UF?
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2007, 11:54:47 AM »
What I don't understand is why FSU has such a high number of applicants, as compared to other schools in it's same type.

FSU: 3,300 applicants

UF: around 2,000 applicants

Tennessee: 1,400 applicants

These are three comparably ranked, large, public, state schools. Why is it that the lowest of the 3 (rankings wise) would get the most applicants? I don't quite understand.



Tennessee and FSU are both ranked 53 according to USNWR. But aside from that,I'd suspect that UT's apps are lower because it is in Tennessee with a much lower population than the State of Florida. As to why FSU gets more apps than UF? Not quite sure on that one.

Maybe not that many people want to be associate with Gator fans who like to do that annoying "gator chomp" with their hands even when UF is losing.


UF dropped b/c they switched from having spring and fall admissions to fall only admissions.  The first year for this was for the class of 09.  On top of that, the school overenrolled.  Perceptions are hard to change and UF is seen as the better school.  It's rare for schools to change in this regard and so UF will likely remain the higher ranked school. If it slips one year, I imagine alums will pour money into the school to change that.  FSU wouldnt be able to match in donations, as it is ~ 1/4 of the size.  Nonetheless, employment options are roughly the same coming from either school.



One quick thing: FSU's alumni giving rate ishigher than UF's so your logic is a little flawed. FSU's also 3/4's of UF's size.

Further, how can pouring money into the schools change the perception of the school? By building things? Both UF and FSU are state schools who can only start major building projects with the approval of the legislator. So you're going to have to explain this one to me.

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Re: In 2010, will FSU have surpassed UF?
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2007, 12:17:01 PM »
Nobody wants to live in Knoxville.... or most of Tennessee for that matter. (I've lived in Nashville for 5 years, I should know).
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juliemccoy

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Re: In 2010, will FSU have surpassed UF?
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2007, 12:58:12 PM »
Going off your theory about Knoxville, it is arguable that FSU receives more applications than UF because fewer people would choose to live in a traditional college town. The football culture at UF is obnoxious, for lack of a better term, if you aren't used to it. Hands-down, that has been the biggest annoyance in my experience here because the whole university (and the town) practically shut down on Game Day. My section-mates at UF who went to FSU for undergrad have said as much regarding their choices to attend one school and then the other. Although minus the state capital goings-on, Tallahassee isn't exactly a metropolis. 

Regardless, the USNews rankings are negligible for these two schools. I can't see an FSU student of similiar rank and quality to a UF student being passed over for a job in any city where they are the final two candidates just because one candidate's school was ranked a few spots lower!

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yykm

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Re: In 2010, will FSU have surpassed UF?
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2007, 03:33:17 PM »
UF dropped b/c they switched from having spring and fall admissions to fall only admissions.  The first year for this was for the class of 09.  On top of that, the school overenrolled.  Perceptions are hard to change and UF is seen as the better school.  It's rare for schools to change in this regard and so UF will likely remain the higher ranked school. If it slips one year, I imagine alums will pour money into the school to change that.  FSU wouldnt be able to match in donations, as it is ~ 1/4 of the size.  Nonetheless, employment options are roughly the same coming from either school.

One quick thing: FSU's alumni giving rate ishigher than UF's so your logic is a little flawed. FSU's also 3/4's of UF's size.

Further, how can pouring money into the schools change the perception of the school? By building things? Both UF and FSU are state schools who can only start major building projects with the approval of the legislator. So you're going to have to explain this one to me.
My logic isnt flawed.  I never mentioned anything about hte alum giving rate.  My comment refers to the total number of alums who could and would donate in an attempt to boost UF's ranking.  Having a smaller % of alums currently giving has minimal relevance.  Eg, 50% of FSU's 50k alums donate 2k while 30% of UF's 200k alums give 2k. (see note below for more).  FSU raises 50k and UF raises 120k.  This point of my earlier post was that with UF's larger alum base, it will have an easier time raising capital.

Do you seriously think that having more capital to spend on a school won't enable the school to increase its appeal and perception to the legal community?  With more capital, a school can attract top professors, professors who are commonly cited throughout legal literature.  Often included next to that prof's name is the school at which he teaches.  Additionally, these professors are often highly connected people.  Theyve clerked for Federal and SCt justices.  Theyve worked at the top firms and sometimes work for those firms on certain projects.  Having such people working at your school can change the perception of the school, especially if those people are impressed wiht the students there etc.

Once famous profs attract the attn of the greater legal community, more firms may be willing to check out students from the school.  Certainly, LORs from the famous profs will get the attn of the judges with whom they had clerked and would open the doors for top students from the school too.

However, the most obvious advantage of having more capital is the ability to give out scholarships.  Being able to attract students with higher numbers with scholarships will increase a school's ranking and, consequently, the perception of the school will rise.


(UF has more alums and so has a larger base from which to raise money.  Since its law school is ~4xs as large as FSU's, then that many more FSU need to give to match the amount UF would raise (assuming that each alum gives the same amount, a major assumption))

yoyodawg

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Re: In 2010, will FSU have surpassed UF?
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2007, 07:54:41 PM »
You see. This is why I hardly ever post on the pre-law side of the board. You call out someone's argument, and they respond with a 50 page dissertation. Congrats on your hypothetical.

My point is very simple. Alumni contributions to already heavily subsidized state schools won't do that much to raise "the prestige" of a state school in USNWR's eyes.






UF dropped b/c they switched from having spring and fall admissions to fall only admissions.  The first year for this was for the class of 09.  On top of that, the school overenrolled.  Perceptions are hard to change and UF is seen as the better school.  It's rare for schools to change in this regard and so UF will likely remain the higher ranked school. If it slips one year, I imagine alums will pour money into the school to change that.  FSU wouldnt be able to match in donations, as it is ~ 1/4 of the size.  Nonetheless, employment options are roughly the same coming from either school.

One quick thing: FSU's alumni giving rate ishigher than UF's so your logic is a little flawed. FSU's also 3/4's of UF's size.

Further, how can pouring money into the schools change the perception of the school? By building things? Both UF and FSU are state schools who can only start major building projects with the approval of the legislator. So you're going to have to explain this one to me.
My logic isnt flawed.  I never mentioned anything about hte alum giving rate.  My comment refers to the total number of alums who could and would donate in an attempt to boost UF's ranking.  Having a smaller % of alums currently giving has minimal relevance.  Eg, 50% of FSU's 50k alums donate 2k while 30% of UF's 200k alums give 2k. (see note below for more).  FSU raises 50k and UF raises 120k.  This point of my earlier post was that with UF's larger alum base, it will have an easier time raising capital.

Do you seriously think that having more capital to spend on a school won't enable the school to increase its appeal and perception to the legal community?  With more capital, a school can attract top professors, professors who are commonly cited throughout legal literature.  Often included next to that prof's name is the school at which he teaches.  Additionally, these professors are often highly connected people.  Theyve clerked for Federal and SCt justices.  Theyve worked at the top firms and sometimes work for those firms on certain projects.  Having such people working at your school can change the perception of the school, especially if those people are impressed wiht the students there etc.

Once famous profs attract the attn of the greater legal community, more firms may be willing to check out students from the school.  Certainly, LORs from the famous profs will get the attn of the judges with whom they had clerked and would open the doors for top students from the school too.

However, the most obvious advantage of having more capital is the ability to give out scholarships.  Being able to attract students with higher numbers with scholarships will increase a school's ranking and, consequently, the perception of the school will rise.


(UF has more alums and so has a larger base from which to raise money.  Since its law school is ~4xs as large as FSU's, then that many more FSU need to give to match the amount UF would raise (assuming that each alum gives the same amount, a major assumption))

Contract2008

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Re: In 2010, will FSU have surpassed UF?
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2008, 12:09:55 AM »

The chance of this happening is similiar to the chance that Cornell surpass Columbia. 

taxguy

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Re: In 2010, will FSU have surpassed UF?
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2010, 12:38:42 PM »
My problem with FSU is not its rankings or cost,but its course offerings. Check out their offerings and compare them to either Florida, Miami or even Statson. These latter schools offer a lot more choices. FSU also has some funky concentrations such as environmental law etc.  Frankly, I wasn't impressed with them at all and can't see them ever surpassing either Florida or Miami. In fact, I can't see them surpassing Stetson for long.

newscctv

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Re: In 2010, will FSU have surpassed UF?
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2010, 05:49:03 AM »
a great post~~


thanks a lot!



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BonJovi666

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Re: In 2010, will FSU have surpassed UF?
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2011, 05:21:13 AM »
That's a VERY limited analysis taxguy. Hopefully you'll learn to make distinctions once you finish law school. Unfortunately, my analysis will be biased because I chose FSU over UF (was offered admission into both). But, here are some things you have completely ignored in why one would ever choose UF over FSU, and things that I considered when choosing to attend FSU Law: (1) FSU dominates UF in location for law. At FSU, you are in the state capital of Florida, on the doorstep of Florida Legislature and the Supreme Court of Florida, literally walking distance from both. UF has NOTHING in terms of law backdrop, outside of the school itself, to offer a student. (2) Faculty is FAR SUPERIOR. Look at the stats and you'll see a marked discrepency in citations and output from the professors at both Universities, HEAVILY skewed in FSU's favor. Here's just ONE example of why UF can't compete with FSU in terms of faculty: I took Florida Constitutional Law with a Florida Supreme Court Justice, Ricky Polston. WHAT AN AMAZING opportunity... you can't say that you'll ever have a similar experience at UF. (3) FSU has a higher placement rate than UF. So if you are looking to have a job once you graduate, FSU is a better choice. (4) FSU routinely has a higher bar passage rate than UF (and among the highest in the state on average). (5) The law school itself is ALOT cooler than UF's law school. (6) FSU is premised on helping students, making life a little easier through your experience at the school. UF is premised on coldness and an "every man for themself" attitude. Very cut throat. (7) FSU is the most selective school in the state (i.e. they take less % of incoming 1Ls per number of applicants than ANY of the schools in Florida. (8) FSU has very small classes and has the lowest teacher-to-student ratio in the state. UF has GIGANTIC classes and GIGANTIC 1L ADMISSIONS, as do Stetson and Miami (both are very indiscriminate about who they take, with an incoming class at roughly 500 students per school compared to a number roughly half that by FSU).

So while you might be right that UF, Stetson, and Miami have more course offerings I think you get the most bang for your buck at FSU for the reasons I just mentioned (I honestly think a person would have to have slight brain damage to choose Stetson or Miami over FSU).