Law School Discussion

Poll

$30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame

$30k @ Pitt
29 (55.8%)
$150k @ Notre Dame
23 (44.2%)

Total Members Voted: 42

$30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2005, 10:31:35 PM »
Quote
I know this may sound a bit rude, but for future reference, your post loses any credibility it might've had by a) taking XOXO posters seriously; and b) it's PittsburgH, not "Pittsburg"

I'm honestly not sure why i waste time trying to help here.  Look around at the posts...tell me if you notice anything.  Right...exactly...0Ls are giving advice concerning employment prospects to other 0Ls based on things they've heard from...well...probably other 0Ls.  I'm an actual 1L (well, i guess maybe 2L now) at a school mentioned in this thread, and i have a biglaw 1L summer firm job in a city i'd never been within 1000 miles of before my interview.  I'd probably be a better source of information, wouldn't you think?

But, let's go over your objections for fun.

a) Taking xoxo posters seriously.

Ok, I'll give you that the board has degraded into...well...pretty much chaos.  However, there are still some reasonably good posters there (sillygoose, GTO, Sexpert, rlk, rowan, sugarywitch, etc) who can provide MUCH better information than ANYONE i've seen on this board.  To deny this would be foolish.

b) it's PittsburgH, not Pittsburg.

Fine....so here, i either 1) had a typo, or 2) didn't know how to spell Pittsburgh.  Now, if you can just explain the wonderful logic of how either of those mistakes would make me unfit to give law school information, i'd be appreciative.

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2005, 07:09:42 AM »
Quote
I know this may sound a bit rude, but for future reference, your post loses any credibility it might've had by a) taking XOXO posters seriously; and b) it's PittsburgH, not "Pittsburg"

I'm honestly not sure why i waste time trying to help here.  Look around at the posts...tell me if you notice anything.  Right...exactly...0Ls are giving advice concerning employment prospects to other 0Ls based on things they've heard from...well...probably other 0Ls.  I'm an actual 1L (well, i guess maybe 2L now) at a school mentioned in this thread, and i have a biglaw 1L summer firm job in a city i'd never been within 1000 miles of before my interview.  I'd probably be a better source of information, wouldn't you think?

But, let's go over your objections for fun.

a) Taking xoxo posters seriously.

Ok, I'll give you that the board has degraded into...well...pretty much chaos.  However, there are still some reasonably good posters there (sillygoose, GTO, Sexpert, rlk, rowan, sugarywitch, etc) who can provide MUCH better information than ANYONE i've seen on this board.  To deny this would be foolish.

b) it's PittsburgH, not Pittsburg.

Fine....so here, i either 1) had a typo, or 2) didn't know how to spell Pittsburgh.  Now, if you can just explain the wonderful logic of how either of those mistakes would make me unfit to give law school information, i'd be appreciative.

To get back to your original post: I think you're the exception rather than the norm. Do ND students/grads, on average, compete with UT and T14 students when interviewing for jobs? I seriously doubt it. And here we have to focus our attention on what the AVERAGE ND student/grad's prospects are, because I don't think any 0L can take for granted he'll be at the top of his class at ND.

Now if you're a star at ND, your degree has truly national appeal without a doubt (what, top 1/4? top 1/3? What would you say?). But, assuming worst case -- your performance at ND is average -- would you really have more options than if you were, say, top 1/4 at Pitt? (and I think that's a fair comparison because the competition will be much tougher at ND of course). And I'm asking because I'm really interested in what kind of options an avg T25 grad might have...

Those are just additional things to consider. You've done very well for yourself, which is great, but I doubt your experience is representative of the typical ND grad. But I would be interested to know what many of your classmates are up to this summer (and not just the superstars or the well-connected). What happens to the average folks? Do they too have pretty good mobility or do they mostly work in IL/IN?

Thanks for your post. It's good to hear from an actual 1L for a change.



Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2005, 09:36:15 AM »
I love how people just rearrange information they've heard elsewhere on this board and repost it. Talk about an echo chamber.

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2005, 11:02:58 AM »
Quote
I love how people just rearrange information they've heard elsewhere on this board and repost it. Talk about an echo chamber.

Exactly.  Thank you for backing me up on this.

Quote
To get back to your original post: I think you're the exception rather than the norm. Do ND students/grads, on average, compete with UT and T14 students when interviewing for jobs? I seriously doubt it. And here we have to focus our attention on what the AVERAGE ND student/grad's prospects are, because I don't think any 0L can take for granted he'll be at the top of his class at ND.

I'm certainly not at the top of my class (i'm maybe top 1/3...we'll have to see how grades this semester turn out)...and those interviews all happened before i got any grades (though for the record, i'll admit i have an EE degree and had a 3.9 ug gpa).  I'd say the AVERAGE ND student does quite well and has good options wherever he wants to go.  Of course the options decrease the further you go down in the class....but it's not at the exponential rate many in this thread have suggested.  Yeah, if you only have a 3.0 here, you're not going to be working for Davis Polk, but you certainly won't be stuck in Chicago either.

Quote
But, assuming worst case -- your performance at ND is average -- would you really have more options than if you were, say, top 1/4 at Pitt? (and I think that's a fair comparison because the competition will be much tougher at ND of course). And I'm asking because I'm really interested in what kind of options an avg T25 grad might have...

Performance in the top 50% at ND isn't worst case...however, going with your scenario, i'd say the ND grad in the top half easily has more national options than the pitt grad in the top 1/4.  I'm not sure if that would apply as much in the Pitt local market...but, being that ND has a small class and not many people head to Pennsylvania, it's likely that the ND grad would get the nod  over the Pitt grad at at least one firm assuming top 50% v. top 25% at each school even if it's only because an ND alum helped out (ND alums are very helpful btw).  I'm not sure how other top 25 schools place, but i can speak from personal knowledge when i say we place grads all over.

Quote
Those are just additional things to consider. You've done very well for yourself, which is great, but I doubt your experience is representative of the typical ND grad. But I would be interested to know what many of your classmates are up to this summer (and not just the superstars or the well-connected). What happens to the average folks? Do they too have pretty good mobility or do they mostly work in IL/IN?

In terms of 1L jobs, not many people i know got firm jobs...i'm one of the few.  I'd say maybe 10-15% from what i can guess got firm jobs.  However, most people were able to get some type of legal job and very few of those were in the regional area.  Almost no one i know wants to live in Chicago/indiana/michigan.

As far as the 3Ls i knew go...i'm not sure i know anyone who didn't get the type of job in the area they wanted to work in (and i don't know many people who wanted to work in in/il, therefore, i don't know many people going there).

Quote
Thanks for your post. It's good to hear from an actual 1L for a change.

Thank you...i think i've sounded rather rude/annoyed in this thread....i probably should be nicer.


Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2005, 11:23:47 AM »
Quote
I love how people just rearrange information they've heard elsewhere on this board and repost it. Talk about an echo chamber.

Exactly.  Thank you for backing me up on this.

Quote
To get back to your original post: I think you're the exception rather than the norm. Do ND students/grads, on average, compete with UT and T14 students when interviewing for jobs? I seriously doubt it. And here we have to focus our attention on what the AVERAGE ND student/grad's prospects are, because I don't think any 0L can take for granted he'll be at the top of his class at ND.

I'm certainly not at the top of my class (i'm maybe top 1/3...we'll have to see how grades this semester turn out)...and those interviews all happened before i got any grades (though for the record, i'll admit i have an EE degree and had a 3.9 ug gpa).  I'd say the AVERAGE ND student does quite well and has good options wherever he wants to go.  Of course the options decrease the further you go down in the class....but it's not at the exponential rate many in this thread have suggested.  Yeah, if you only have a 3.0 here, you're not going to be working for Davis Polk, but you certainly won't be stuck in Chicago either.

Quote
But, assuming worst case -- your performance at ND is average -- would you really have more options than if you were, say, top 1/4 at Pitt? (and I think that's a fair comparison because the competition will be much tougher at ND of course). And I'm asking because I'm really interested in what kind of options an avg T25 grad might have...

Performance in the top 50% at ND isn't worst case...however, going with your scenario, i'd say the ND grad in the top half easily has more national options than the pitt grad in the top 1/4.  I'm not sure if that would apply as much in the Pitt local market...but, being that ND has a small class and not many people head to Pennsylvania, it's likely that the ND grad would get the nod  over the Pitt grad at at least one firm assuming top 50% v. top 25% at each school even if it's only because an ND alum helped out (ND alums are very helpful btw).  I'm not sure how other top 25 schools place, but i can speak from personal knowledge when i say we place grads all over.

Quote
Those are just additional things to consider. You've done very well for yourself, which is great, but I doubt your experience is representative of the typical ND grad. But I would be interested to know what many of your classmates are up to this summer (and not just the superstars or the well-connected). What happens to the average folks? Do they too have pretty good mobility or do they mostly work in IL/IN?

In terms of 1L jobs, not many people i know got firm jobs...i'm one of the few.  I'd say maybe 10-15% from what i can guess got firm jobs.  However, most people were able to get some type of legal job and very few of those were in the regional area.  Almost no one i know wants to live in Chicago/indiana/michigan.

As far as the 3Ls i knew go...i'm not sure i know anyone who didn't get the type of job in the area they wanted to work in (and i don't know many people who wanted to work in in/il, therefore, i don't know many people going there).

Quote
Thanks for your post. It's good to hear from an actual 1L for a change.

Thank you...i think i've sounded rather rude/annoyed in this thread....i probably should be nicer.



You're right, average definitely isn't worst case. I should have simply said assuming your performance is average (what I get for not proofreading I guess).

No I totally understand why you'd be annoyed...I think like the other poster pointed out, people mostly just read comments on other threads and recycle those points elsewhere, backing them up with little knowledge and experience.

I know most 1Ls don't get firm jobs; my question was more about graduate/2L summer employment -- but you've answered it anyway.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure from reading it if your scenario applied to an average ND student, an exceptional one, or one somewhere between the two.

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2005, 02:43:01 PM »
if you're f-ing dumb enough that this is even a remotely difficult decision, go to pitt.  you won't cut it at notre dame.

tacojohn

  • ****
  • 984
  • "I voted. P. Diddy told us to vote"
    • ICQ Messenger - 176834534
    • MSN Messenger - tacojohniu@msn.com
    • AOL Instant Messenger - TacoJohnIU
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - tacojohniu@yahoo.com
    • View Profile
    • Fearfully Optimistic
    • Email
Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2005, 07:10:01 AM »
If I can address the "Conservative Catholic" viewpoint thing, remember you also have to deal with the "ND Love" viewpoint.  I've had people who tell me that in undergrad, the unquestioned love for ND gets overwhelming at times.  Law school might be different, if nirvanayoda cares to say, but ND and Harvard are the two unquestioned leaders in self-love.