Law School Discussion

Poll

$30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame

$30k @ Pitt
29 (55.8%)
$150k @ Notre Dame
23 (44.2%)

Total Members Voted: 42

$30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2005, 08:01:27 PM »
I still see no compelling evidence to go to ND over PITT.  Pitt seems like a better fit for you and it's got a great legal reputation.  Also, thats a lot of money (Future Present Value) 120k now is tons later on.  You'll be in much better shape post-JD.  Good luck and congrats on your acceptance.


Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2005, 08:10:46 PM »
Maybe I'm just pissed at ND for rejecting me while Pitt accepted me (althought I'm not going there), but I don't see the difference between the schools as that great. #24 vs #52 isnt huge enough to take on that much debt. Sounds like Pitt is offering you a pretty good deal. Yes, ND is a highly respected school, but it certainly isnt a T14. It isn't going to have as much out of state mobility as the grand name "Notre Dame" suggests. It sounds like Pitt is a good fit for you. Frankly, with my other options on the board, I wouldn't take ND even if they had accepted me (but I guess I'm a sucker for the savings since I'm taking a scholarship at Brooklyn over admission at BU). Good luck

SleepyGuyYawn

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2005, 09:57:05 PM »
Just to add one more thing: if you're gay or bi, it's my belief you'll be sorry to go to Notre Dame.  If you want more info on this, I can give it, but I'm pretty sure about my opinion on it.

And although there are surely many students and faculty members at ND who're more open, progressive people, it is going to be much more conservative (especially socially) than most other grad school environments. 

Yes, I just don't see why you'd go to ND.  It's true that it might be somewhat close to Chicago, but that doesn't mean you'll ever get there.  Law school doesn't give you enough time for weekend trips :)

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2005, 09:05:40 AM »
Look: if you simply want to get a law degree and practice in Pittsburgh or some other cities in Pennsylvania, and if you don't want big loans, you're decision is easy: go to Pitt.  You'll get a job and become a lawyer and make nice money and live happily ever after.

Notre Dame will cost you more money, but you will have a law degree from one of the most respected universities in the country and the world.  You'll instantly have national mobility--and whoever says otherwise has not done research.  I live out west and I've talked to people--a judge in AZ and a BigLaw lawyer in Cali, for example--and they both say Notre Dame is outstanding and very well respected.  And I know a 3L at ND right now who just got hired at a big firm in San Diego, and I know a number of '04 grads who are in Phoenix.  I could go on and on: ND Lawyers are respected everywhere, and they have the resources of the best alumni network in the country.  And cannotpick's claim that the difference between a #24 school and a #52 school is neglible... well, I'll leave you to wonder how valid that is.

Now, those are practical reasons: but there are intangible reasons to go to Notre Dame, reasons that you can't put on a chart or in a spreadsheet or in a cost-benefit analysis.  I could go on and on about what they are, but if you don't already understand them or know them or feel them, then that's another reason not to attend ND.  I could sing ND's praises all day, but it's not for everybody.

 

SleepyGuyYawn

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2005, 01:12:44 PM »
I very much disagree that you'll have "national mobility" if you go to Notre Dame.  You'll have great access to the Chicago legal market, to be sure -- as well as to other markets in the midwest.  But if you want to practice in San Francisco or Philly or New York or DC or most other places in the country, you'll have a lot of footwork to do. 

In NYC, Fordham grads will get hired before Notre Dame grads.  In DC, Washington and Lee and George Washington grads will get hired before Notre Dame Grads.  In San Francisco, Hastings grads will get hired before Notre Dame grads.  And in Pittsburgh, you'll have to fight Pitt grads for jobs.  Everywhere you'll get beat out by top fifteen schools. 

This is not to mention the fact that you'll be limited in where you practice because of your debt. 

The bottom line is that people will recognize a Notre Dame degree more easily than a Pitt degree in other parts of the country.  But it's not a top ten school and it's not truly national. 

phxangel

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Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2005, 01:40:26 PM »
I'm going through the same issue with GW with no scholarship v. Pitt with 20k or Indiana with $50k in loans. So while I can't be of extraordinary help to the original poster, I'm also concerned with the decision to make...any suggestions?

SleepyGuyYawn

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2005, 02:14:31 PM »
If you're thinking you'd like to live in Pittsburgh (beautiful area and very low cost of living), you wouldn't really do any better by going to GW.  And GW is deceptivly expensive b/c the cost of living in DC is out of this world (I have a sister who lives in DC). 

But GW is still an amazingly good school in a fun town.  While Notre Dame is slipping, GW has been on the rise in reputation for years. 

Indiana?  Do you want to live in Detroit or Indianapolis?

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2005, 06:44:40 PM »
I very much disagree that you'll have "national mobility" if you go to Notre Dame. You'll have great access to the Chicago legal market, to be sure -- as well as to other markets in the midwest. But if you want to practice in San Francisco or Philly or New York or DC or most other places in the country, you'll have a lot of footwork to do.

In NYC, Fordham grads will get hired before Notre Dame grads. In DC, Washington and Lee and George Washington grads will get hired before Notre Dame Grads. In San Francisco, Hastings grads will get hired before Notre Dame grads. And in Pittsburgh, you'll have to fight Pitt grads for jobs. Everywhere you'll get beat out by top fifteen schools.

This is not to mention the fact that you'll be limited in where you practice because of your debt.

The bottom line is that people will recognize a Notre Dame degree more easily than a Pitt degree in other parts of the country. But it's not a top ten school and it's not truly national.

SleepyGuy: ND is "not truly national"?

What would you say to the 17 ND grads from '04 who are now practicing in California?  To the 7 in Florida and the 7 in New Jersey?  To the 11 in New York, the 6 in Virginia and the 7 right in Washington, D.C.?  Not to mention the 7 in Arizona?  If ND doesn't have national mobility, how do you explain this?  How did these people find jobs? 

NY may or may not hire Fordham grads over ND grads, but that still does not mitigate the fact that ND grads get hired in New York. 

If you still doubt ND's "nationalness" just look at this link.

http://www.nd.edu/~ndlaw/prospective_students/career_information/employers04.html

SleepyGuyYawn

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2005, 10:11:45 PM »
What would you say to the 17 ND grads from '04 who are now practicing in California?  To the 7 in Florida and the 7 in New Jersey?  To the 11 in New York, the 6 in Virginia and the 7 right in Washington, D.C.?  Not to mention the 7 in Arizona?  If ND doesn't have national mobility, how do you explain this?  How did these people find jobs? 

They did their footwork.  Pittsburgh has 35% of their grads leaving PA too.  But it takes work.

No -- Notre Dame isn't "national." Sorry...

kristay

Re: $30k in loans @ Pitt vs. $150k in loans at Notre Dame
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2005, 10:17:01 PM »
No, ND is not national in the sense that the T14 are, but still does place well nationally.  I would hardly consider ND to be a regional school.  Maybe this is just b/c it does place well in CA and is very well respected on the West Coast, but this is the impression I get from practicing lawyers in the Cali.