Am I black?

[Bluenine]

yeah me neither

I was referring more or less to the OP in her/his original question..I really never thought to separate the two you know?

you know.. i never looked at it from a black OR african american perspective.. some people say they're black other's say they're african american.. i really didn't take it outside of that context...

Sorry I didn't mean to differentiate between the two.  To me, black and African American are interchangeable along with black American/Afro-American etc.  They are all names used to identify descendants of American slaves.  For example, when speaking with a Nigerian, Ghanian, Jamaican, 10 times out of 10, they'll say they're not black but whatever their respective country is (i.e. Nigerian, Ghanian, or Jamaican).

[faith2005]

Awww BP, I know you know your people. and you should know that i know them too. i've met folks from jamaica, dark as me that said they weren't black b/c their great grandfather was part Chinese. and some Trinis who said similar type stuff. is it an inaccurate statement? no, their ancestry is Chinese. is it a statement that reflects their internalization of white supremacy? i would say yes, but people are entitled to disagree   i think the main issue for black (american) people is that the West Indians and Africans who refuse to say they're black do so because they feel like black people (americans) are somehow beneath them. so why should they benefit from what we have fought long and hard to get? but i still say we're crabs in a barrel if we try to keep one group from getting the benefits of aa. whats keeping people from just increasing the % of black people represented in their student body? i think thats what we should fight for.

[_BP_]

yeah, reparations and not repatriation (I was thinking too quickly)

Note that we were all brought to this hemisphere by the same European/American slave machine.  My forefathers and yours were probably on the same slave ship heading this way.  By the luck of the draw (or lack of luck depending on who you ask), my people ended up getting sold a few miles off the coast of mainland American while your people most likely got sold here.  They both ended up on European/American plantations and busted their asses. So even if A.A were reparation driven, here I am to reap!   You're probably right though, I won't check that black/URM box, I'm getting a stamp made, to stamp the entire page!

Oh and an inaccurate statement, is an inaccurate statement, regardless of frame of reference. I mean, what else can people from the Caribbean identify themselves as, grey?

It's inaccurate because you say so...

Don't focus on the most trivial portion of my post and ignore the meat of it.  And to answer your question, YES.  This assertion is inaccurate (to the point of being laughable)-and I do mean this respectfully:


For example, when speaking with a Nigerian, Ghanian, Jamaican, 10 times out of 10, they'll say they're not black but whatever their respective country is (i.e. Nigerian, Ghanian, or Jamaican).

[faith2005]

yeah me neither

I was referring more or less to the OP in her/his original question..I really never thought to separate the two you know?

you know.. i never looked at it from a black OR african american perspective.. some people say they're black other's say they're african american.. i really didn't take it outside of that context...

Sorry I didn't mean to differentiate between the two.  To me, black and African American are interchangeable along with black American/Afro-American etc.  They are all names used to identify descendants of American slaves.  For example, when speaking with a Nigerian, Ghanian, Jamaican, 10 times out of 10, they'll say they're not black but whatever their respective country is (i.e. Nigerian, Ghanian, or Jamaican).

see thats the misunderstanding. thats why blaqueangel looks at it like she's black, but not african american or black american. i haven't met any nigerian that says they're not african american, but doesn't describe themselves as black american or afro-american. and they've sometimes asked me, why i prefer african american given that i have european and native american ancestry. its an issue that we need to talk out in our community.

[_BP_]

Awww BP, I know you know your people. and you should know that i know them too. i've met folks from jamaica, dark as me that said they weren't black b/c their great grandfather was part Chinese. and some Trinis who said similar type stuff. is it an inaccurate statement? no, their ancestry is Chinese. is it a statement that reflects their internalization of white supremacy? i would say yes, but people are entitled to disagree  i think the main issue for black (american) people is that the West Indians and Africans who refuse to say they're black do so because they feel like black people (americans) are somehow beneath them. so why should they benefit from what we have fought long and hard to get? but i still say we're crabs in a barrel if we try to keep one group from getting the benefits of aa. whats keeping people from just increasing the % of black people represented in their student body? i think thats what we should fight for.

I see your point Faith, but Bluenine wrote: For example, when speaking with a Nigerian, Ghanian, Jamaican, 10 times out of 10, they'll say they're not black but whatever their respective country is (i.e. Nigerian, Ghanian, or Jamaican).

That's simply not true.  Matter of fact, those people that you have met who undermine their blackness are in the great minority.  What bluenine said here, is a preconceived notion that some black Americans hold.  I got your other points as well Faith.

[Bluenine]

yeah, reparations and not repatriation (I was thinking too quickly)

Note that we were all brought to this hemisphere by the same European/American slave machine.  My forefathers and yours were probably on the same slave ship heading this way.  By the luck of the draw (or lack of luck depending on who you ask), my people ended up getting sold a few miles off the coast of mainland American while your people most likely got sold here.  They both ended up on European/American plantations and busted their asses. So even if A.A were reparation driven, here I am to reap!   You're probably right though, I won't check that black/URM box, I'm getting a stamp made, to stamp the entire page!

Oh and an inaccurate statement, is an inaccurate statement, regardless of frame of reference. I mean, what else can people from the Caribbean identify themselves as, grey?

It's inaccurate because you say so...

Don't focus on the most trivial portion of my post and ignore the meat of it.  And to answer your question, YES.  This assertion is inaccurate (to the point of being laughable)-and I do mean this respectfully:


For example, when speaking with a Nigerian, Ghanian, Jamaican, 10 times out of 10, they'll say they're not black but whatever their respective country is (i.e. Nigerian, Ghanian, or Jamaican).

I don't agree with the meat of your post so why bother addressing it?  Believe what you will...Also, clearly you missed my clarification of what black means to ME! (See below)   I was not using it as a racial identifier but as a term to identify culture.  You've already said yourself, people identify with their ethnicity (i.e. Jamaican, Nigerian, etc.)

"Yes, I know who Marcus Garvey is.  I'm not using BLACK as a racial identifier, but a cultural one.  I KNOW WE'RE ALL BLACK in that respect!  Geez.  Culturally, however, we are different.  I apologize for not being clear. I identify myself as black (meaning African American), and I assumed we were speaking in terms of ethnicity/culture."

[blk_reign]

when I look @ BP.. i think.. he's a black man of Afro-Caribbean descent living in America... when I think back to my undergrad experience while there was a Caribbean Students Association- they didn't separate themselves from "Black Americans"...Africans on my campus tended to hang out mostly with other Africans or International students.. but when it comes down to the application process.. I never sat down and looked at the whole "Black/African American" slot... basically because I was born here (so I didn't think about it at all)...

what I do believe though (now that the topic has actually been presented) is that the title "Black/African American" definitely limits Blacks that were not born here in America.. I don't feel that West Indians or Black Africans should be restricted from aa solely on the basis that they weren't born in America...

but as for Meeno.. I believe  that the fact that s/he's now trying to decide what box to check is enough evidence to conclude that s/he doesn't identify with the Black community.

[MsJay9]

I think that your personal statement is going to be the determining factor in your admissions when it comes to checking the Black box....Just b/c you check it doesn't mean that you will automatically get in.  You have to tell how your experience as a Black or African American person has influenced certain aspects of your life.  

Meeno:  I think that Blk hit a nerve when she asked what u usually identify with....You said it is irrelevant but it is not at all.....b/c if you're just trying to say it now for your own benefit when its convenient then YOU are WRONG and that is not moral.

BP, in the US if you look Black then you'll be treated that way....Jamaican, Carribean, whatever.....So I'm  sure that you can say Black....

[_BP_]

Okay bluenine...I hope I didn't come off too harsh though.  It's obviously a topic we are both passionate about.  Just a few things then, some of which I feel like we agree on but are just misunderstanding each other:

1) One does not have to be American to be black.

2) So someone from the Caribbean who says that they are not African American are not saying that they are not black.  This can lead to misunderstandings if one believes that being black and being African American has to always be the same thing.

3) We are descendants of the same slaves, that grew up several hundred miles apart, thus the cultural difference.  Same reason why someone raised in New Orleans is different from someone raised in Brooklyn.

Just trying to find some common ground here.

[_BP_]

yeah, reparations and not repatriation (I was thinking too quickly)

Note that we were all brought to this hemisphere by the same European/American slave machine.  My forefathers and yours were probably on the same slave ship heading this way.  By the luck of the draw (or lack of luck depending on who you ask), my people ended up getting sold a few miles off the coast of mainland American while your people most likely got sold here.  They both ended up on European/American plantations and busted their asses. So even if A.A were reparation driven, here I am to reap!   You're probably right though, I won't check that black/URM box, I'm getting a stamp made, to stamp the entire page!

Oh and an inaccurate statement, is an inaccurate statement, regardless of frame of reference. I mean, what else can people from the Caribbean identify themselves as, grey?

It's inaccurate because you say so...

Don't focus on the most trivial portion of my post and ignore the meat of it.  And to answer your question, YES.  This assertion is inaccurate (to the point of being laughable)-and I do mean this respectfully:


For example, when speaking with a Nigerian, Ghanian, Jamaican, 10 times out of 10, they'll say they're not black but whatever their respective country is (i.e. Nigerian, Ghanian, or Jamaican).

I don't agree with the meat of your post so why bother addressing it?  Believe what you will...Also, clearly you missed my clarification of what black means to ME! (See below)   I was not using it as a racial identifier but as a term to identify culture.  You've already said yourself, people identify with their ethnicity (i.e. Jamaican, Nigerian, etc.)

"Yes, I know who Marcus Garvey is.  I'm not using BLACK as a racial identifier, but a cultural one.  I KNOW WE'RE ALL BLACK in that respect!  Geez.  Culturally, however, we are different.  I apologize for not being clear. I identify myself as black (meaning African American), and I assumed we were speaking in terms of ethnicity/culture."

Oh sh*t, I didn't realize you posted this before I posted my last "let's find commond ground" post.  Well F*ck it then...

Basically what you are saying when you say "I'm not using it as racial identifier but as a term to identify culture" is this: I'm using it to say, Black means American, and those who identify with American culture.

You're right, if that's how you see it, then this convo is going nowhere 
peace