I have a dream...

[ImVinny!]

HOw is an African American kid who grew up in an upper middle class environment more at a disadvantage than a whiet kid that grew up in the backwoods of Tennessee? I think there may very well be a place for AA, but we should reexamine how it is used. "There will be a time when we are judged by the content of our character and not the thickness of our wallet". LOL I don't think it's so much about black and white as it is about green. But then again, this is coming from a stereotypical white guy who will never understand most of the gripes minority groups have and get's sick of being blamed for something that took place two hundred years ago.

Amen brother!

[ImVinny!]

Ok, so Carlton is going to be attributing something different than your average rich white guy? I think not.

[be10dwn]

Where is all this disadvantage and gripe stuff coming from? This is a completely different argument for AA. I said nothing about disadvantage. Some schools may want people with different cultures because people of different cultures will contribute different opinions and see things from a different perspective.

So there aren't people who have the same numbers that can satisfy this?  Why is it okay to lower standards?  Why is that accepted and not considered patronizing?  I'm just curious.  I don't know the answer to these questions.

[InVinoVeritas]

Where is all this disadvantage and gripe stuff coming from? This is a completely different argument for AA. I said nothing about disadvantage. Some schools may want people with different cultures because people of different cultures will contribute different opinions and see things from a different perspective.

So there aren't people who have the same numbers that can satisfy this? Why is it okay to lower standards? Why is that accepted and not considered patronizing? I'm just curious. I don't know the answer to these questions.

if you look at the evidence presented in the michigan law school case, the answer to your first question seems to be no, at least with respect to LSAT scores and african american students.  so, if diversity is the goal, and there aren't enough candidates who qualify by numbers alone, then the choice is either to forgo diversity to some extent or accept applicants who's LSAT scores are lower than the school's typical scores.  i suppose whether or not this is patronizing depends on the people who directly benefit and whether or not they feel patronized.

[be10dwn]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to go to Stanford, but I know I'm not qualified, so why would I wawnt to take the spot of someone who deserves to be there?

[ImVinny!]

Because you can? lol, that's the way these people feel about it.

[ThePerfectSoldier]

HOw is an African American kid who grew up in an upper middle class environment more at a disadvantage than a whiet kid that grew up in the backwoods of Tennessee?  I think there may very well be a place for AA, but we should reexamine how it is used.  "There will be a time when we are judged by the content of our character and not the thickness of our wallet".  LOL  I don't think it's so much about black and white as it is about green.  But then again, this is coming from a stereotypical white guy who will never understand most of the gripes minority groups have and get's sick of being blamed for something that took place two hundred years ago. 

Maybe it's not just about money, and instead about racism past and present, yes?  Why it is so difficult to think of the effects of racism apart from money, I am afraid I can't understand. 

Chances are, some kid from the backwoods of Tennessee is going to be able to have a first impression with people that doesn't include people wondering if they're about to be jacked for their wallet.  That might not always be true for someone who's black.  Chances are, some kid fromt he backwoods of Tennessee is going to ask for a promotion and get it.  For someone of the same credentials who's black, it might not happen as often.  Chances are that subconscious racism caused, among other things by the media, will not so much affect a boy from the backwoods of Tennessee, and he'll be viewed more for who he is than his outward appearance and parentage.  That might not always be true for someone who's black.

AA is not a measure against poverty, and it never has been.  There are disadvantages other than money.  Strange that that's all you dwell on.  But then again, this is coming from a black minority who will never understand most of the feelings of self-pity that majority groups have and gets sick of being harassed by white people who blame not getting into college or getting scholarships on people like myself.

[dbgirl]

I agree with perfect soldier -- racism is alive and well.

[be10dwn]

HOw is an African American kid who grew up in an upper middle class environment more at a disadvantage than a whiet kid that grew up in the backwoods of Tennessee?  I think there may very well be a place for AA, but we should reexamine how it is used.  "There will be a time when we are judged by the content of our character and not the thickness of our wallet".  LOL  I don't think it's so much about black and white as it is about green.  But then again, this is coming from a stereotypical white guy who will never understand most of the gripes minority groups have and get's sick of being blamed for something that took place two hundred years ago. 

Maybe it's not just about money, and instead about racism past and present, yes?  Why it is so difficult to think of the effects of racism apart from money, I am afraid I can't understand. 

Chances are, some kid from the backwoods of Tennessee is going to be able to have a first impression with people that doesn't include people wondering if they're about to be jacked for their wallet.  That might not always be true for someone who's black.  Chances are, some kid fromt he backwoods of Tennessee is going to ask for a promotion and get it.  For someone of the same credentials who's black, it might not happen as often.  Chances are that subconscious racism caused, among other things by the media, will not so much affect a boy from the backwoods of Tennessee, and he'll be viewed more for who he is than his outward appearance and parentage.  That might not always be true for someone who's black.

AA is not a measure against poverty, and it never has been.  There are disadvantages other than money.  Strange that that's all you dwell on.  But then again, this is coming from a black minority who will never understand most of the feelings of self-pity that majority groups have and gets sick of being harassed by white people who blame not getting into college or getting scholarships on people like myself.

I guess what it comes down to is that I'll neverf be black and you'll never be white so we will never truely understand each othere huh?  You say self pity, I say reverse racism.  Does it really matter.  I think people should be judged based on their qualifications, much like I bet you do, but you also want to add another layer to it.  You want to say that if a black and a white person are equally qualified for a person, the black person should automatically get the position because of history.  I say it shouldn't make a damn bit of difference.  Then you would say that if the white person gets the job its because of racism.  Where does it end? 

[ThePerfectSoldier]

Why shouldn't it make a difference?  If hiring one would do more good than hiring the other, all other things constant, one would think its not only right to do so but logical.  So, if hiring the black person would do more good, which in most cases it would(again, all other things being equal and constant), then there we go.