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LSAT TAKERS! DO NOT USE KAPLAN

LawEcon

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Re: LSAT TAKERS! DO NOT USE KAPLAN
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2004, 01:54:40 PM »
Yes, I work for Kaplan.  In response:

(1) That someone taught for Kaplan with a 156 is frankly unacceptable.  However, the fact that a teacher is "incompetent" does not indicate that he/she has scored below the 90th percentile, no matter how many "tons" of people may believe this to be so.  You've only referenced one example in which this was the case.  At my center, and at all nearby centers, I know for a fact that this requirement is strictly enforced.  I will continue to argue that your claim is atypical, until you can provide additional examples other than your own.

(2) Kaplan's method for diagramming logic games is not "substantially longer" than those used by the Logic Games Bible.  In almost all cases, the diagrams are fundamentally similar, and differ in only very minor detail.  Kaplan does not advocate using "charts," and all diagrams fit in the space allotted.  While I haven't researched the diagrams for "virtually every other testprep company" I would guess you haven't either.  Again, please provide some specific examples to demonstrate your claim.

(3) Regarding Kaplan's use of real LSAT questions, I was replying to: Kaplan "generally [doesn't] use real questions in their own materials since it's cheaper than licensing them."  This is simply false.  The Kaplan classroom course (encompassing all methods and strategies) is presented from a lesson book in which *every* question comes from a real LSAT.  Yes, there is a book of questions written by Kaplan.  However, this book is purely supplemental to the classroom course.  There are no required assignments from this book, and one could go through the entire course without doing any of those questions.  So, it's simply not the case that Kaplan "generally" does not use real questions in its materials.

(4) It's not clear when you took the diagnostic test, but there is not a circular seating question on it.  Again, the Kaplan diagnostic is just a recent LSAT PrepTest.  While circular seating recently appeared on the test (Oct. or Dec. '03), it has not shown up prior to this in years.  If you indeed had a circular seating question in the non-experimental section of your diagnostic, which PrepTest was this?  Also, the diagnostic doesn't contain "easily teachable and recognizable problems" unless it is the case that an entire test constructed by LSAC is amenable to Kaplan methods.  Since the LSAT is a standardized test, the types of questions posed do not change radically from one administration to another.  If what you say is true for the diagnostic, it must be true for any particular test.

Finally, if I'm a "troll" because I don't agree with you, then so be it.  Perhaps you'll provide some examples next time to support your claims, rather than resorting to ad hominems.

Re: LSAT TAKERS! DO NOT USE KAPLAN
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2004, 03:09:56 PM »
i learned circular games at princeton and their gaming methods were better lol

i wanted to bang my head against the desk every time at kaplan, both for sat and lsat...plus kaplan was really rude to me (the manhattan one)

my teacher was cocky...he got a 175 but he grad with a 2.6 and was like yeah you should all do well cuz look at me im a moron but i did well!  fluke?

lol

LawEcon

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Re: LSAT TAKERS! DO NOT USE KAPLAN
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2004, 03:48:24 PM »
You're absolutely right, that teacher had a poor attitude.  I make no claims regarding teaching style, and I'm sure Kaplan has just as many good or bad instructors as other prep courses.

I was mainly responding above to the assertion that it is typical for Kaplan instructors to teach without scoring at or above the 90th percentile, which I do not believe to be the case. 

Certain prep courses clearly work better for some people rather than others.  I don't think any company can accurately claim that their course works best for everyone.  It's bothersome, however, to see specific, unsubstantiated comments made that just aren't true.

blizzard of ozz

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Re: LSAT TAKERS! DO NOT USE KAPLAN
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2004, 04:06:27 PM »
You miss the crux of the argument. Kaplan branch office hires bad teachers. Then, the main office doesn't fire them. I'm not saying it's typical, but their uncaring attitude is.

Personally I think many of the test companies are a sham, just that Kaplan is the worst. Good students will do well whether they study with or without a testprep program. And, yes I did in fact survey all the major test materials and found both PR and Testmasters much more satisfactory. I also provided specific examples, you just paid no attention. The diagnostic I took was wildly atypical of the test.

For instance, under the Kaplan method, when you diagram a balanced linear game, they have you draw up an enormous Y/N/maybe chart. You have a limited amount of space to write next to the problem and no scrap paper. There was no way in hell I, and several thousand other people could get that to fit. Testmasters had you draw a few lines. Efficiency is everything on a timed test, especially when one is without scrap paper.

Can we just move this discussion to the drinking the hateraid thread? It'll be easier there. I'd rather not hijack this discussion thread. Since you already work for Satan ie: Kaplan you should be right at home amidst dark forces of hate breeding there anyway.

Re: LSAT TAKERS! DO NOT USE KAPLAN
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2004, 04:38:53 PM »
rofl...kaplan didn't hire me for sat tutoring (1460 mind you) but hired my feminine hygiene product friend with a 1300 who looks like he smokes crack on a daily basis

lol

LawEcon

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Re: LSAT TAKERS! DO NOT USE KAPLAN
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2004, 05:19:00 PM »
Blizzard of Ozz,

 I'd rather not move my posts, since this will be my last in response to yours on this subject.

First, the "crux" of this discussion is that your claims are unsubstantiated.  You have not provided "specific examples" that have been ignored.  You made a specific claim regarding teachers' scoring below the 90th percentile.  I have repeatedly said that this is wrong *and* atypical.  You have not demonstrated otherwise.

Second, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about regarding a Y/N/maybe chart because Kaplan does not advocate such a method for logic games.  This is the first specific example you have provided regarding this claim.  It is false.

Third, you again say your diagnostic was not typical of the test.  I again say that the diagnostic is a recent PrepTest.  If a recent PrepTest is not typical of the LSAT, I don't know what is.

In summary, your claims have no merit.  You had a bad experience with your local Kaplan center, and that's unfortunate.  To extrapolate this to the entire company is an example of poor reasoning and sour grapes.

blizzard of ozz

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Re: LSAT TAKERS! DO NOT USE KAPLAN
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2004, 06:10:14 PM »
In summary, you are Kaplan troll who is resistant to reason, therefore ad hominem is warranted. I provided multiple valid points and you ignored them as well as your own inconsistencies. Regarding Logic Games, this was the Kaplan method when I took the course, and is outlined in the course materials I had at the time 2 or 3 years ago. I do not appreciate your tone or your commentary, especially you telling me what tests I did or did not take as well as the materials I used. The LSAT which was taken was old and the materials indicated a mehtod like what I described. As an employee of Kaplan, it is obvious you are contributing to what's wrong with Kaplan.

Please do the human race a favor and refrain from reproducing. Thank you.

If you wish to respond, please do so on the hateraid thread. As previously mentioned, I don't feel like hijacking this one.

Re: LSAT TAKERS! DO NOT USE KAPLAN
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2004, 02:23:41 PM »
Hey Hookem Law,
I also had Farb Nivi for the P.Review Class and he was great.

I am really happy that I took the PR Class because my older sister took the Kaplan review before her LSAT and she warned me against it.  I definitely gained from her loss because my score went up about 8 points, and I didn't even complete all of the homework or online work, or take all of the diagnostic tests.  I thought the PR class gave great advice.  I guess it depends on your teacher.

Victor

Re: LSAT TAKERS! DO NOT USE KAPLAN
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2004, 03:57:30 PM »
Has anyone noticed Kaplan's active promotion for their $100 rebate for thir June course? I see ads/pamplets about it everywhere. I guess they noticed they are losing customers.



Re: LSAT TAKERS! DO NOT USE KAPLAN
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2004, 08:01:23 AM »
Dropping from 165 to 149?  That's a huge drop, and I think you should take some responsibility for what happened.  What were you scoring on practice tests?  (I assume that, as a diligent student, you took at least 4-6 practice tests besides the Diagnostic, Midterm and Final in the Kaplan course). 

It sounds like you had a complete emotional breakdown under the pressure of the test.  I'm sorry to hear that, but don't blame Kaplan for your failure. 

I took the Kaplan course, and got a 151 on my Diagnostic.  After a few months of practice, I scored 163 on the real exam.  That's not good enough to get me into Yale or Harvard, but I did make a big improvement using Kaplan's materials, and applying myself to a rigorous studying schedule. 

It all depends on the indvidual's aptitude and work ethic.  You can use any prep materials you want - Kaplan, Test Masters, Princeton Review, etc. - and it won't guarantee you a high score.  It will just guarantee you an opportunity.  Marketing pitches aside, it's VERY difficult to score a 180 regardless of how hard you practice, or what course you take.  Did you really think that you could enroll in some course and walk away with a 180 in your pocket?