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Author Topic: Food Stamps  (Read 5684 times)

Munkeysgrrl

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Re: Food Stamps
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2004, 05:49:01 PM »
As far as overpopulation, the US is actually approaching zero population growth.

It makes sense to care for the hungry and the sick.  It's part of my value system.  If the richest and most powerful nation on the earth can't be humane, then there is no hope and we might just as well go back to the jungle.



I think the problem with this is that we aren't just caring for the hungry and the sick - we are caring for the lazy and stupid too.  And from what I have seen, we aren't doing a great job of caring for the sick and hungry (especially children and vets) because we are spending so much money on the lazy and stupid.

Most of my feelings on foodstamps/welfare comes from the people I have known on it - most of whom, imo, were scamming the system.  For example, I knew someone who was 14 and looking to get pregnant so that she could drop out of school and have money to party with.  Taking care of a kid was her last concern, but she knew she'd get money for having one.  Another example, someone on food stamps who had 8 kids - being on food stamps starting with the first one but instead of using protection to not have kids, kept having them.  Another, someone who was physically able to work but figured he's milk his "injury" as long as possible - he was able to do everything (go out for beer, see movies, buy stuff, etc) except work.

Going on those examples, the money seemed to be spent there.  However, the people that I knew that really needed the money (mostly children from abused homes), it was hard to get any money for them - the money would go to their parents (who no longer had custody or at least didn't have the children living with them) or the money just wasn't there.

I agree schoomp, it is a very flawed system.  I currently work with homeless and mentally ill vets, and it is a nightmare.  Essentially we are simply trying to figure out how to give them care without spending the $$.  We are using resources to figure out the best way to not use resources.  Insane logic!
Loyola LA Here I Come!!

jgruber

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Re: Food Stamps
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2004, 05:56:44 PM »
Let me play the devil's advocate.  If the lazy and the stupid are also the sick and hungry, what do we do?

Is stupidity a reason to turn our backs?  I'm not sure exactly what you mean by stupidity.  Lack of intelligence, mental defect.... 

Laziness is a troubling area.  Often it is a matter of perception.


You say that most are scamming, but I think you're depending on anecdotal information.  What do careful studies of the situation tell us?  How many women really get pregnant just to collect welfare and how can we really know this?  How can you emperically determine when someone is milking an injury and not really in need?  Emotions should not guide public policy; facts are needed.

You say that people who are really in need should get the help.  The problem is trying to construct a legal and practical definition of 'really in need'.  How would you define it in a way that can be administered and would prevent scammers?


Ginatio

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Re: Food Stamps
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2004, 01:06:11 AM »
To get back to the point of law school students taking advantage of the system...

I think it's morally reprehensible to take advantage of what you acknowledge as being a flawed system because you "pay taxes" or simply because you can. The fact of the matter is that most law students (such as ruskie) don't need food stamps to get by (future public interest attorneys and those with families to take care of aside). To take advantage of the system just because the loophole is there seemingly to be taken advantage of would be to go down a slippery slope.

You are essentially scamming a system that isn't there with you in mind and you're attempting to justify it through ethically bereft arguments such as "i pay taxes, thus i will use it". If you're able to convince yourself that what you're doing is ok by using such weak arguments, god knows what types of things you'll be justifying later on in your career. It's this type of slippery slope thinking that leads to bigger and bigger things (e.g., Tyco, Enron, etc.)

As someone else mentioned earlier, the real people that need the resources (starving children and older folks) may not get what they need because you feel like you deserve what the system offers and because you don't feel you should take out an extra couple grand in loans. You musn't always get ahead in life by shitting on other people... the opportunity is there, but again, it's a moral slippery slope.

Munkeysgrrl

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Re: Food Stamps
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2004, 01:21:26 AM »
To get back to the point of law school students taking advantage of the system...

I think it's morally reprehensible to take advantage of what you acknowledge as being a flawed system because you "pay taxes" or simply because you can. The fact of the matter is that most law students (such as ruskie) don't need food stamps to get by (future public interest attorneys and those with families to take care of aside). To take advantage of the system just because the loophole is there seemingly to be taken advantage of would be to go down a slippery slope.

You are essentially scamming a system that isn't there with you in mind and you're attempting to justify it through ethically bereft arguments such as "i pay taxes, thus i will use it". If you're able to convince yourself that what you're doing is ok by using such weak arguments, god knows what types of things you'll be justifying later on in your career. It's this type of slippery slope thinking that leads to bigger and bigger things (e.g., Tyco, Enron, etc.)

As someone else mentioned earlier, the real people that need the resources (starving children and older folks) may not get what they need because you feel like you deserve what the system offers and because you don't feel you should take out an extra couple grand in loans. You musn't always get ahead in life by shitting on other people... the opportunity is there, but again, it's a moral slippery slope.

Like I said before, genius, if NECESSARY I will use them (like my dad was forced to).  I stated I would NOT use them in law school.  That is not NEED.  And I do plan on being on being a public interest lawyer.  I have been doing pub int. work for the last several years of my life.  Nowhere did I say I "deserved" them.  Stop making *&^% up and read what I said, not what you decided to twist my words into.  Have a nice evening!
Loyola LA Here I Come!!

Ginatio

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Re: Food Stamps
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2004, 01:24:07 AM »
lol. calm down. i wasn't attacking you personally. just making a general point based on something you said (the taxes thing).

Like I said before, genius, if NECESSARY I will use them (like my dad was forced to).  I stated I would NOT use them in law school.  That is not NEED.  And I do plan on being on being a public interest lawyer.  I have been doing pub int. work for the last several years of my life.  Nowhere did I say I "deserved" them.  Stop making *&^% up and read what I said, not what you decided to twist my words into.  Have a nice evening!

Ginatio

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Re: Food Stamps
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2004, 01:52:13 AM »
I can see how it seemed like I was attacking you, though. :-[ Sometimes I use "you" as an impersonal second person pronoun, where "one" might be more appropriate. Sowry

lol. calm down. i wasn't attacking you personally. just making a general point based on something you said (the taxes thing).

Like I said before, genius, if NECESSARY I will use them (like my dad was forced to).  I stated I would NOT use them in law school.  That is not NEED.  And I do plan on being on being a public interest lawyer.  I have been doing pub int. work for the last several years of my life.  Nowhere did I say I "deserved" them.  Stop making *&^% up and read what I said, not what you decided to twist my words into.  Have a nice evening!


jgruber

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Re: Food Stamps
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2004, 10:34:01 AM »
What is wrong with a starving law student accepting food stamps? 

What is the hang up with who deserves food and who doesn't? 

BigDaddy

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Re: Food Stamps
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2004, 11:06:06 AM »
What is wrong with a starving law student accepting food stamps? 

What is the hang up with who deserves food and who doesn't? 

the big point here is that the LS student can get extra loans to help get through and pay for food, while the single mother of three works two jobs and still has trouble putting food on the table.
and those who are to be public interest attny's can get loan forgiviness if they desire that route. Leave the food stamps to those who are truly unable to support themselves.

jgruber

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Re: Food Stamps
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2004, 11:09:59 AM »
assuming the law student is not a mother of three

jgruber

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Re: Food Stamps
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2004, 11:12:13 AM »
Let me ask this.  If you got a tax refund would you turn it down so that there would be more money for food stamps?