Starting with a 138

[jacy85]

He wants to take it in JUNE


Big mistake.  HUGE mistake.  You can't even crack the LRB or LGB in that amount of time. He could maybe read through most of the LGB, but the LRB is LONG.  He needs MUCH longer than a month to benefit from the Powerscore books.  You not only have to read them adn work through them, but you have to be actively learning it every second, or else when it comes time to apply this stuff, you're going to forget 90% of it.

20 points is NOT going to be possible in 1 month.  He should be taking it in October at the earliest.  If he's already registered, he needs to pay the fee and reschedule.  Why didn't he start thinking about this 3 months ago?

[Amanda H.]

and it tells you very little about how well you will do after adequate prep.
 

Actually, it does tell you how you can do with adequate prep.

 

No, not really. I know many people who had similar starting points, but ended up in very different places.  Doing an LSAT cold tells you very little, except that you're dumb in the first place for doing it.

It's not unreasonable to aim for 150-160 from there, but I'd put money down that this kid's not gonna be hitting 170.  The starting point gives you something to work towards and lets you set realistic goals.

I'd put money down that 98% of the population isn't going to hit 170, without even seeing their intial diagnostic.  So what?

An intial crappy score doesn't give you anyhing to work towards, not does it help you set realistic goals, because it doesn't really tell you anything about what you're capable of once you actually understand the concepts underlying the exam.  All it does is potentially discourage you from putting in the time and energy that will be necessary to do so, no matter what your initial score is.  

(What you should work towards, of course, is the best possible score you can get, and this is always a realistic goal.  Artificially limiting that early on seems pretty pointless, since all it will do is lower your ambition, and consequently the amount of time and effort you'll likely be willing to expend.)

But if knowing your starting point is discouraging for you, then maybe there's some other self-esteem issues going one.

Really?  I think a 138 would probably be discouraging for anyone.  given that you think a 151 sucks, I'm not sure how you could disagree.  

Again, it simply doesn't make much sense to take a timed LSAT cold.  Almost no one will do very well on it, and all it will do is give you an unrealistically negative view of what you can do when you actually understand the concepts.  (The LSAT is intimidating enough for most people without creating this kind of unnecessary negative energy early on.)  

The reason Prep companies do this, in my opinion, is so they can claim large score increases after the first diagnostic (even though such increases are pretty much inevitable for anyone who does any prep).  As such, they are acting more in the interests of their marketing needs than in the best interests of their students.  But if you think it's a good approach, you're certainly free to follow it.

[Amanda H.]

He wants to take it in JUNE


Big mistake.  HUGE mistake.  You can't even crack the LRB or LGB in that amount of time. He could maybe read through most of the LGB, but the LRB is LONG.  He needs MUCH longer than a month to benefit from the Powerscore books.  You not only have to read them adn work through them, but you have to be actively learning it every second, or else when it comes time to apply this stuff, you're going to forget 90% of it.

20 points is NOT going to be possible in 1 month.  He should be taking it in October at the earliest.  If he's already registered, he needs to pay the fee and reschedule.  Why didn't he start thinking about this 3 months ago?

This much I agree with. Pretty much everyone should start at least three months beforehand, and preferably even earlier.

[AMB22]

Well his situation is kind of unique in that he's trying to get an educational extension from the army (ROTC) to go to law school (they would pay) and then fulfill his service requirements in JAG. He has to apply for the extension (he's not reallt sure how hard it is to get the extension but he needs an LSAT score in the Summer so would have to take in June) but he needs to do well enough that he could get into a decent law school.

You're right, he should have been thinking about this months ago...I gave him all my prep materials in Sept and told him to start studying and I'd help him get ready for June...he wasn't sure what he was going to do and then out of nowhere he decided a few days ago he was going to take the LSAT in June and do whatever it takes to try to get the educaitonal extension. I don't think its possible for him to take in Oct and apply for the extension. I can't change the stupid situation he is in, all I can do is help him the best from now until the test.

You think it is impossible to go up 20 points for June starting at a 138? I studied for about the same amount of time last year and went up 15 points from my first preptest and was hitting close to a 20 point increse on preptest leading up to the test. Is 20 worth trying or should I more or less tell him to give up?

He wants to take it in JUNE


Big mistake.  HUGE mistake.  You can't even crack the LRB or LGB in that amount of time. He could maybe read through most of the LGB, but the LRB is LONG.  He needs MUCH longer than a month to benefit from the Powerscore books.  You not only have to read them adn work through them, but you have to be actively learning it every second, or else when it comes time to apply this stuff, you're going to forget 90% of it.

20 points is NOT going to be possible in 1 month.  He should be taking it in October at the earliest.  If he's already registered, he needs to pay the fee and reschedule.  Why didn't he start thinking about this 3 months ago?

[AMB22]

Well I wanted him to take a full test to see generally where he is at in terms of a score and if he had any glaring strengths or weaknesses. His test was pretty much a disaster overall thats I'm asking if its possible to go up 15-20 points in a month starting with a 138 cold.

He wants to take it in JUNE


Big mistake.  HUGE mistake.  You can't even crack the LRB or LGB in that amount of time. He could maybe read through most of the LGB, but the LRB is LONG.  He needs MUCH longer than a month to benefit from the Powerscore books.  You not only have to read them adn work through them, but you have to be actively learning it every second, or else when it comes time to apply this stuff, you're going to forget 90% of it.

20 points is NOT going to be possible in 1 month.  He should be taking it in October at the earliest.  If he's already registered, he needs to pay the fee and reschedule.  Why didn't he start thinking about this 3 months ago?

This much I agree with. Pretty much everyone should start at least three months beforehand, and preferably even earlier.

[_EKC_]

i took a full test on august 31 - totally cold - and scored 155.

october lsat: 174.

study methods: powerscore weekend course, about 10 practice tests, lots of timed sections.

[AMB22]

Yeah he was looking into weekend courses but I think he said the only one he could find/get into was a week before the test. If he could take one like this weekend it would be worht it but a week before the test probably won't be any good.

i took a full test on august 31 - totally cold - and scored 155.

october lsat: 174.

study methods: powerscore weekend course, about 10 practice tests, lots of timed sections.

[jacy85]

If this is really what he wants to do, I really suggest he wait and put it off a year.

The biggest regret that's voiced is that people wish they'd put more time into studying for the lsat, or had studied differently.  He's not going to realistically be able to prepare for the june test in a month.  If he took the test cold and scored in teh mid 150 or 160s, I'd say sure, take some more tests and give it a go.

But starting from a 138 says that he has a lot of work to do, especially if he doesn't really have any strenghts.

Also, 1 month is NOT enough time to get him familiar with the timing of the lsat, IMO.  Lots of people would do MUCH better on the test if the time limits were taken away.  You need to practice enough so you can finish a decent amount of the sections, adn I don't see that happening in a month.

It's his life, so he can take the gamble if he wants to.  But just make sure he's 100% aware that a score lower than 150 is going to make it VERY VERY hard to get into the school he wants.  Say he scores a 145.  If he decides to take again, he'd need to score a a 165 to average out to a 155 (some schools will take the higher score if you score that much higher, but not all do).  So doing poorly on the first test would be a severe handicap.  If he knows and understands this, and decides to try, then that's his decision.

But if I were him, I'd rather regret missing law school for 1 year instead of regretting a low score that would follow me around for 5 years.  (or is it 4?  Either way, it's a significant period of time)

[_EKC_]

i took the one right before the test. actually the timing was perfect for me becuase i knew what i needed to pay attention to and what i could ignore based on how i was doing on my own. depending on how he's doing, it might still be worth it.  The weekend course seemed to help me break from the low 170s to the higher 170s.

[Amanda H.]

Well I wanted him to take a full test to see generally where he is at in terms of a score and if he had any glaring strengths or weaknesses. His test was pretty much a disaster overall thats I'm asking if its possible to go up 15-20 points in a month starting with a 138 cold.

He wants to take it in JUNE


Big mistake.  HUGE mistake.  You can't even crack the LRB or LGB in that amount of time. He could maybe read through most of the LGB, but the LRB is LONG.  He needs MUCH longer than a month to benefit from the Powerscore books.  You not only have to read them adn work through them, but you have to be actively learning it every second, or else when it comes time to apply this stuff, you're going to forget 90% of it.

20 points is NOT going to be possible in 1 month.  He should be taking it in October at the earliest.  If he's already registered, he needs to pay the fee and reschedule.  Why didn't he start thinking about this 3 months ago?

This much I agree with. Pretty much everyone should start at least three months beforehand, and preferably even earlier.

I guess the only time it would make ANY sense to take a diagnostic cold is if you're dumb enough to consider taking the LSAT with only a month of prep.

In this case, I guess it will at least let the guy know that he should wait until October.  However, for most people, it probably makes more sense to simply assume you'll need 3+ months of solid prep, and begin accordingly.