Law School Discussion

Home Ownership and Wealth Building

smujd2007

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #210 on: June 21, 2005, 02:25:18 PM »
Co-sign.  :D

gotta love the lurkers that only post when we talk about issues dealing with racial disparities :D :D :D

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #211 on: June 21, 2005, 02:43:01 PM »
While I think it would be good to make companies that benefitted from slavery pay into a large scholarship fund or something, how do you decide who pays what?

I mean, BofA bought Fleet, which had bought Providence (or whatever), which benefited over a hundred years ago.  Upon which company do you base the reparations?  BofA's present value? The value that Fleet had when B of A bought it?  The value that Providence had when Fleet bought it? Do you adjust the value for today's dolalrs?

I mean, in today's world of mergers, there is plenty of money in the BofA coffers that did NOT come from slavery... What will be the basis for making the calculation? Personally, I think that's the biggest hurdle--most of these companies that benefited do not exist in their original form anymore...

If/when they do pay out reparations, I think the money should go to a scholarship fund or something.  Giving a check to people would be too hard.  I mean, think of the possibility for fraud.  So then you'd have to prove it. 

But how many people can actually prove that they had slaves in their family anymore?  And I mean prove: "my great grandma told me so" probably won't be sufficient (for example, Native Americans have to be Card Holders in order to get their benefits...). 

So what about the people who don't have hundred plus year old documents any more?  They just don't get anything? (And, of course, the other side of the equation is people claiming benefits when they don't deserve them--ie people who emigrated voluntarily AFTER the civil war--it would be a sick and twisted thing to do, but money is a powerful motivator...)

Besides, I think that that money should go to help all blacks, because all of them suffer from discrimination in today's world, whether their ancestors were slaves or not...

So I think that's probably the best way to do it: set up a big scholarship fund and let all blacks apply to it.  Sure, there are already black scholarships available, but more is better... And education will help people way more than a one-time payment of $500 or whatever...  (I mean, even if they have to pay a billion dollars, there are millions of people and millions of descendants still living.  I mean, entire families... The check you'd get wouldn't go nearly as far as an education...)

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #212 on: June 21, 2005, 02:49:49 PM »
While I think it would be good to make companies that benefitted from slavery pay into a large scholarship fund or something, how do you decide who pays what?

I mean, BofA bought Fleet, which had bought Providence (or whatever), which benefited over a hundred years ago.  Upon which company do you base the reparations?  BofA's present value? The value that Fleet had when B of A bought it?  The value that Providence had when Fleet bought it? Do you adjust the value for today's dolalrs?

I mean, in today's world of mergers, there is plenty of money in the BofA coffers that did NOT come from slavery... What will be the basis for making the calculation? Personally, I think that's the biggest hurdle--most of these companies that benefited do not exist in their original form anymore...

If/when they do pay out reparations, I think the money should go to a scholarship fund or something.  Giving a check to people would be too hard.  I mean, think of the possibility for fraud.  So then you'd have to prove it. 

But how many people can actually prove that they had slaves in their family anymore?  And I mean prove: "my great grandma told me so" probably won't be sufficient (for example, Native Americans have to be Card Holders in order to get their benefits...). 

So what about the people who don't have hundred plus year old documents any more?  They just don't get anything? (And, of course, the other side of the equation is people claiming benefits when they don't deserve them--ie people who emigrated voluntarily AFTER the civil war--it would be a sick and twisted thing to do, but money is a powerful motivator...)

Besides, I think that that money should go to help all blacks, because all of them suffer from discrimination in today's world, whether their ancestors were slaves or not...

So I think that's probably the best way to do it: set up a big scholarship fund and let all blacks apply to it.  Sure, there are already black scholarships available, but more is better... And education will help people way more than a one-time payment of $500 or whatever...  (I mean, even if they have to pay a billion dollars, there are millions of people and millions of descendants still living.  I mean, entire families... The check you'd get wouldn't go nearly as far as an education...)

We agree on this anodduck.  Payments would be made to a fund.  That's what I outlined in my post when I spoke about creating a grant making fellowship.  As far as determining what each company's payment would be (in a world of mergers and such) that is a problem that can be worked on and figured out.  It's not going to be easy, but there is a wealth of records out there that can help with the process.

smujd2007

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #213 on: June 21, 2005, 02:56:22 PM »
I think its more complicated than we all want to admit,though. Just getting people to part with their money for something that they feel they did not cause (though they continue to perpetuate through cheap labor, racism, and other things that I won't mention) would be a tremendous chore.
 :-\ 

But I think you bring up an EXCELLENT point when you say that they figured out how to do large scale slavery and human trafficking, so figuring out how to do reparations shouldn't be impossible.


How does everyone feel about reparations?  

Are we talking just for black folks? What about the Native Americans? What about the Irish, Italian, and Eastern europeans that were discriminated against in the 1800's? What about the Chinesse forced to build railroads under virtual slave labor? Where does it end?

Will throwing money at it solve the problem or is something deeper in need of changing. money never solves problems of ignorance and disrespect.

Will throwing people in jail solve our crime problems? No, but it is necessary though. The atonement for individual criminals and criminal companies is commonly accepted as jail and fines respectively.  So I'm all for money being "thrown at the problem" if these companies contributed to the problem itself.  Todays' incarnation of the problem is a lack of healthcare, lower quality education, discrimination in the workplace, housing inequalities..and so on.  These are things that can be practically addressed with money.  Who would pay whom? Companies that have contributed in any way to the slave trade should pay money into a managed fund (the model worked on by Johnny Cochran before he passed) and that fund be used to start a perpetual fellowship that could be used to focus on the lingering inequalities that face us..some of which I mentioned above.

It's not really that complicated. Besides, if they could go through the complicated logistics involved in the trade of human beings, they can find a way to make this work!

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #214 on: June 21, 2005, 03:02:50 PM »

But I think you bring up an EXCELLENT point when you say that they figured out how to do large scale slavery and human trafficking, so figuring out how to do reparations shouldn't be impossible.


Um, not to be overly morose or anything, but human trafficking and slavery aren't really that hard to manage when they are legal--which they were...  It was based on a live-stock principle, which is why its so abhorrent, but trafficking is really not that complex...

I mean, all the human trafficking that goes on today is illegal, which is why it is (rightfully) difficult to do.  But if it were legal, it wouldn't be nearly as hard to coordinate... So I'm not sure that that analogy works.

Don't get me wrong, the practice is and was absolutely hideous--just not that complex to pull off...
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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #215 on: June 21, 2005, 03:50:07 PM »

But I think you bring up an EXCELLENT point when you say that they figured out how to do large scale slavery and human trafficking, so figuring out how to do reparations shouldn't be impossible.


Um, not to be overly morose or anything, but human trafficking and slavery aren't really that hard to manage when they are legal--which they were...  It was based on a live-stock principle, which is why its so abhorrent, but trafficking is really not that complex...

I mean, all the human trafficking that goes on today is illegal, which is why it is (rightfully) difficult to do.  But if it were legal, it wouldn't be nearly as hard to coordinate... So I'm not sure that that analogy works.

Don't get me wrong, the practice is and was absolutely hideous--just not that complex to pull off...
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Just because it was legal does not make it any less comlex though. Think of the technology of the time though annoduck.  Having to find non-perishable food that would last the two to three  months that it could take during the middle passage.  Goods had to be bought in England to be exchanged for slaves.  Then new goods were bought to be sold in England and North America.  Then goods that African traders wanted were bought again, and they would return to Africa.  That entire process could take a year to complete.  It was no small undertaking. Furthermore the slave trade continued long after the British abolished it, so for many years traders had to be dodging British Naval ships.  It was no walk in the park.  It was a huge undertaking.  Plus there was no Weather channel, no GPS systems, no vitamin C pills, no university trained translators....and so on.  The fact that it was legal would have been little consolation when you had to think about the logistics involved.

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #216 on: June 21, 2005, 04:02:32 PM »

But I think you bring up an EXCELLENT point when you say that they figured out how to do large scale slavery and human trafficking, so figuring out how to do reparations shouldn't be impossible.


Um, not to be overly morose or anything, but human trafficking and slavery aren't really that hard to manage when they are legal--which they were...  It was based on a live-stock principle, which is why its so abhorrent, but trafficking is really not that complex...

I mean, all the human trafficking that goes on today is illegal, which is why it is (rightfully) difficult to do.  But if it were legal, it wouldn't be nearly as hard to coordinate... So I'm not sure that that analogy works.

Don't get me wrong, the practice is and was absolutely hideous--just not that complex to pull off...
Quote
Quote

Just because it was legal does not make it any less comlex though. Think of the technology of the time though annoduck.  Having to find non-perishable food that would last the two to three  months that it could take during the middle passage.  Goods had to be bought in England to be exchanged for slaves.  Then new goods were bought to be sold in England and North America.  Then goods that African traders wanted were bought again, and they would return to Africa.  That entire process could take a year to complete.  It was no small undertaking. Furthermore the slave trade continued long after the British abolished it, so for many years traders had to be dodging British Naval ships.  It was no walk in the park.  It was a huge undertaking.  Plus there was no Weather channel, no GPS systems, no vitamin C pills, no university trained translators....and so on.  The fact that it was legal would have been little consolation when you had to think about the logistics involved.

Very true--I'm just not sure that the slave trade was much more complex than any other ship-based trade of the day...

Omegaman

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #217 on: June 21, 2005, 05:21:21 PM »

But I think you bring up an EXCELLENT point when you say that they figured out how to do large scale slavery and human trafficking, so figuring out how to do reparations shouldn't be impossible.


Um, not to be overly morose or anything, but human trafficking and slavery aren't really that hard to manage when they are legal--which they were...  It was based on a live-stock principle, which is why its so abhorrent, but trafficking is really not that complex...

I mean, all the human trafficking that goes on today is illegal, which is why it is (rightfully) difficult to do.  But if it were legal, it wouldn't be nearly as hard to coordinate... So I'm not sure that that analogy works.

Don't get me wrong, the practice is and was absolutely hideous--just not that complex to pull off...
Quote
Quote

Just because it was legal does not make it any less comlex though. Think of the technology of the time though annoduck.  Having to find non-perishable food that would last the two to three  months that it could take during the middle passage.  Goods had to be bought in England to be exchanged for slaves.  Then new goods were bought to be sold in England and North America.  Then goods that African traders wanted were bought again, and they would return to Africa.  That entire process could take a year to complete.  It was no small undertaking. Furthermore the slave trade continued long after the British abolished it, so for many years traders had to be dodging British Naval ships.  It was no walk in the park.  It was a huge undertaking.  Plus there was no Weather channel, no GPS systems, no vitamin C pills, no university trained translators....and so on.  The fact that it was legal would have been little consolation when you had to think about the logistics involved.

Very true--I'm just not sure that the slave trade was much more complex than any other ship-based trade of the day...

Slave trading was more complex based on the fact that it was human cargo, forget vitamin c, Antibiotics , or immunizations were not around at the time so one episode of a virus such as influenza, or even dysentary would wipe out your whole cargo, which is why so many were thrown over board,antibiotic dont treat viruses anyway. Good could spoil but it would take time, a virus 1 week into the voyage and most of your cargo was destroyed. Im reading this book; The Great Influenza: The Epic Story of the Deadliest Plague In History In America in 1918 in just 52 weeks it killed 100 million. The book states in 24 weeks more died than have died in 24 years from AIDS

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #218 on: June 21, 2005, 05:31:32 PM »

Less than half of blacks own homes compared to more than three-fourths of whites.



With that said.. I’m here to do whatever I can to help you guys in your quest for wealth-building and home ownership.. if you are considering purchasing a home.. I can help you get an excellent deal anywhere in this country… a very dear friend of mine is an African American loan officer  and she works with all types of credit.. finds excellent deals in spite of student loans.. so if you’re interested.. feel free to PM me for further details…
Onward and Upward in the struggle!

Edit: As a barred attorney I can also help with some of the seller consession (ie builder/seller contracts)



Wow blk. You can help me purchase a home? I'll PM you today!! :P

Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #219 on: June 22, 2005, 10:58:35 AM »

Less than half of blacks own homes compared to more than three-fourths of whites.



With that said.. I’m here to do whatever I can to help you guys in your quest for wealth-building and home ownership.. if you are considering purchasing a home.. I can help you get an excellent deal anywhere in this country… a very dear friend of mine is an African American loan officer  and she works with all types of credit.. finds excellent deals in spite of student loans.. so if you’re interested.. feel free to PM me for further details…
Onward and Upward in the struggle!

Edit: As a barred attorney I can also help with some of the seller consession (ie builder/seller contracts)



Wow blk. You can help me purchase a home? I'll PM you today!! :P

When I was looking to buy a home, Blk hooked me up with a fabolous loan officer --her best friend. This woman has bent over backwards, anticipated every question or possible holdup and helped us to prepare for it, she's jumped through hoops for us and our very unique situation and has done it all with a smile. I couldn't imagine that the process of finding the right mortgage and buying in a different state could be so painless, but alas it was. And in the process, I feel that I've made a great friend. Whenever Blk or the loan officer need anything, I will gladly be there to support them.

Other than my personal experience and endorsement for Blk and her best friend, I must say that taking this step to building equity and preparing well for my future instead of just living for today has put me on the road to financial success--one that my mother has never been able to achieve. You have to make the choice to look to the future and to better yourself as a whole. Sometimes that means sacrifices, but keep your eye on the big picture and the life that you want to have and that you want to be able to pass down to your children.