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Author Topic: Home Ownership and Wealth Building  (Read 113267 times)

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #150 on: May 18, 2005, 02:48:58 PM »
Black = Struggle
No Black = no struggle..

That is such a sweeping and closed minded statement.  There are plenty of people that would find this comment ridiculous.. I mean, I understand the point of the post, I just dont think its fair (to anyone) to make statements that label an entire group..

 


You have the second sentence backwards.  

It is not "no black = no struggle."  As you have it written, the phrase implies that if so long as you are not black (you are white, blue, green, whatever), you are not struggling.  This is patently false--struggle and suffering affect all people of all races and creeds (white, blue, green, whatever).  

What I DID say was that it would appear that if a black person is not struggling, then they are subject to criticism for not being black enough. (no struggle = no black)

I based these remarks on observations made in my own life.  I have seen how black people who are successful are often criticized by other black people for being whitewashed, or an oreo--basically, for not being black enough.  

But how can that be?  Their skin color hasn't changed--only their level of income and education.  And if we're to the point where it is socially unacceptable in some circles to be both black AND educated with a good income, we're at a sad, sad day...


You are correct.. I did misread the second sentence.. And, as you have said.. you have conjured your opinion of blacks being ashamed of themselves, or success, or whatever.. out of your own group of friends.. This does not represent the entire population!

As a matter of fact, when I was younger I too thought it wasnt cool to get good grades.. I went from being a straight A student to getting Ds and Fs.. I was subsequently sent to a private school that straightened me out REAL quick.. My point in revealing this is to prove that this issue is not so much racial as it is cultural.. No matter what your skin color, people are going to be jealous of any successes you may have.. And weak people, like myself at the time, tend to succomb to that pressure.. Its human nature..

Not sure if this is making sense or not.. The pressure to struggle or be cool may be greater amongst people in different groups.. but I dont think its fair to classify an ENTIRE group in this manner..

I have never said it was the entire population.  (And the post was chock full of maybes...)

As for basing my comments on my own personal experience--am I supposed to do otherwise?  What else could I base them on?  Stereotypes?

(There is a big difference between making a sterotype and making an extrapolation.  Political polls are extrapolations--ie. to say, 64% of people polled think "X", therefore it is likely that 64% of the total population thinks X is not a stereotype.  It is an extrapolation.  So to say that in my experience (i.e. my poll) these issues have surfaced in and affected the lives of black people, therefore it is likely that these issues affect the lives of other black people, is not a sterotype.  It is an extrapolation. If I had never known any blacks or made any personal observations--basing all of my ideas off of OTHER people's experiences--then it would be a stereotype.)

As for the downward pressue to get bad grades, I'm glad you went to a private school and were able to get out of it... But what about those who couldn't/can't go to a private school (where teachers and staff spend much more time with and on their students)?  

Many people are stuck in that kind of environment, and it makes it a heck of a lot harder to get out... So what can we do?  Encourage them to reject suffering and embrace success.  It's easier said than done, but you gotta start somewhere...

drowles

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #151 on: May 18, 2005, 02:56:25 PM »
I totally agree with everything you just said.. not sure what, exactly, i took issue with in the last post.. and im too lazy to reread it..
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drowles

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #152 on: May 18, 2005, 02:59:16 PM »
Well.. I re-read it.. and I dont agree entirely.. especially about your analysis of what constitutes stereotyping and extrapolation.. Im sure the KKK could come up with some extrapolations we would all find ridiculous.. For the most part, however, I think we are agreed.. I guess..
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drowles

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #153 on: May 18, 2005, 03:01:24 PM »
And.. by the way.. political polls.. especially some of the ones found on the FOX news channel.. can EASILY be manipulated (extrapolated) to stereotype particular groups..
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blk_reign

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #154 on: May 18, 2005, 03:02:43 PM »
Annoduck was on point with his post and he got praise for it.. get over it Drowles...

it wasn't racist..there were no stereotypes..nor any hidden innuendos involved..

we got it..and have sense moved on

Many blacks throughout this country have a negative self image.. it goes from generation to generation.. just the other day a friend's grandmother said to her granddaughter

I saw that young lady Beyonce on television the other day..boy have they lightened her up.. I need to get some of that lightening cream for myself..


Can you imagine the look on my face when my girl told me her grandmother said that filth?? Itís sickÖ and it isnít a rare example

Look at how many people are calling successful black people Uncle TomísÖ look at the minstrel time period and how black folks are STILL cooning on tv today..

How can you not say that self hatred doesnít exist among black people?? I donít know what type of utopia youíre wishing for.. but it takes a great black person to rise above hating themselves.. no one has said that ALL blacks have issues with self hatred.. but itís safe to say that most do.. it may not show at all times..but  every now and then you will see it shine through..

It sits at the very core of our being as a whole.. a lot of people are still stuck with ďthe white doll is betterĒ mentality.. The White college is superior to the Black college.. .

Let me find a white economist to support why I feel as a Black man itís better to rent an apt than buy your own home..

Howard beat Harvard this yr in the mock trial competition?? Damn they really dropped the ball on that one..


Man I donít want to date this sista unless she has a perm..


those girls with fros and dreadlocks are ugly.. hmm maybe theyíre gay

Daughter/granddaughter  why did you do that to your hair, I miss the silky smooth look that you had

We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

drowles

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #155 on: May 18, 2005, 03:06:58 PM »
Annoduck was on point with his post and he got praise for it.. get over it Drowles...

it wasn't racist..there were no stereotypes..nor any hidden innuendos involved..

we got it..and have sense moved on

Many blacks throughout this country have a negative self image.. it goes from generation to generation.. just the other day a friend's grandmother said to her granddaughter

I saw that young lady Beyonce on television the other day..boy have they lightened her up.. I need to get some of that lightening cream for myself..


Can you imagine the look on my face when my girl told me her grandmother said that filth?? Itís sickÖ and it isnít a rare example

Look at how many people are calling successful black people Uncle TomísÖ look at the minstrel time period and how black folks are STILL cooning on tv today..

How can you not say that self hatred doesnít exist among black people?? I donít know what type of utopia youíre wishing for.. but it takes a great black person to rise above hating themselves.. no one has said that ALL blacks have issues with self hatred.. but itís safe to say that most do.. it may not show at all times..but  every now and then you will see it shine through..

It sits at the very core of our being as a whole.. a lot of people are still stuck with ďthe white doll is betterĒ mentality.. The White college is superior to the Black college.. .

Let me find a white economist to support why I feel as a Black man itís better to rent an apt than buy your own home..

Howard beat Harvard this yr in the mock trial competition?? Damn they really dropped the ball on that one..


Man I donít want to date this sista unless she has a perm..


those girls with fros and dreadlocks are ugly.. hmm maybe theyíre gay

Daughter/granddaughter  why did you do that to your hair, I miss the silky smooth look that you had



Ok.. I give up.. stereotype away.. I dont think its the proper way to go about solving problems.. but to insist that a majority of people feel this way.. without having any other way to know it (unless there are some "extrapolated" polls I dont know about) is dangerous.. in my opinion.. I think some great points where made in his post, and I dont deny it, I just take issue when an entire group of people is labeled.. He has since explained that was not his intention.. and I get it.. I just dont like the terms "many" and "all" when describing a group of people.. WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS.. At this point, Im probably just arguing for the sake of arguing.. but its fun just the same.. sorry to annoy you.. Im done.. I guess I should now FIFTH his post..! ;D
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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #156 on: May 18, 2005, 03:07:44 PM »
Well.. I re-read it.. and I dont agree entirely.. especially about your analysis of what constitutes stereotyping and extrapolation.. Im sure the KKK could come up with some extrapolations we would all find ridiculous.. For the most part, however, I think we are agreed.. I guess..

No one has ever said polls are an exact science--just that they are not the same thing as stereotypes.  

Everyone knows that figures and polls can be manipulated to say what people want them to say, but if removing personal experience as a basis for opinion is the correct thing to do because nothing can ever be sufficiently independently verifiable, well, then, I need to move to a new planet...

drowles

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #157 on: May 18, 2005, 03:13:46 PM »
Well.. I re-read it.. and I dont agree entirely.. especially about your analysis of what constitutes stereotyping and extrapolation.. Im sure the KKK could come up with some extrapolations we would all find ridiculous.. For the most part, however, I think we are agreed.. I guess..

No one has ever said polls are an exact science--just that they are not the same thing as stereotypes.  

Everyone knows that figures and polls can be manipulated to say what people want them to say, but if removing personal experience as a basis for opinion is the correct thing to do because nothing can ever be sufficiently independently verifiable, well, then, I need to move to a new planet...

My point was that polls can be used to stereotype.. not that they are the same thing..  Saying that extrapolating from a poll frees you from the possibility of stereotyping is inaccurate.. (again, this is in my opinion)

You HIT the nail on the head!  Personal experience as a basis for OPINION.. and you are using your OPINION to classify an entire group of people.. Which, although I am alone here, I dont think is fair... Again.. that is the ONLY thing I take issue with in your post..

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drowles

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #158 on: May 18, 2005, 03:22:58 PM »
Annoduck was on point with his post and he got praise for it.. get over it Drowles...

it wasn't racist..there were no stereotypes..nor any hidden innuendos involved..

we got it..and have sense moved on

Many blacks throughout this country have a negative self image.. it goes from generation to generation.. just the other day a friend's grandmother said to her granddaughter

I saw that young lady Beyonce on television the other day..boy have they lightened her up.. I need to get some of that lightening cream for myself..


Can you imagine the look on my face when my girl told me her grandmother said that filth?? Itís sickÖ and it isnít a rare example

Look at how many people are calling successful black people Uncle TomísÖ look at the minstrel time period and how black folks are STILL cooning on tv today..

How can you not say that self hatred doesnít exist among black people?? I donít know what type of utopia youíre wishing for.. but it takes a great black person to rise above hating themselves.. no one has said that ALL blacks have issues with self hatred.. but itís safe to say that most do.. it may not show at all times..but  every now and then you will see it shine through..

It sits at the very core of our being as a whole.. a lot of people are still stuck with ďthe white doll is betterĒ mentality.. The White college is superior to the Black college.. .

Let me find a white economist to support why I feel as a Black man itís better to rent an apt than buy your own home..

Howard beat Harvard this yr in the mock trial competition?? Damn they really dropped the ball on that one..


Man I donít want to date this sista unless she has a perm..


those girls with fros and dreadlocks are ugly.. hmm maybe theyíre gay

Daughter/granddaughter  why did you do that to your hair, I miss the silky smooth look that you had



Yeah.. i DO dream of eutopia.. i wish we all did..
ATTENDING... UGA.. GO DAWGS!!!
Accepted: UGA, GW PT, Tulane
Dinged:GMU PT/FT
Priority Waitlist: Gtown PT
Waitlist: BC, WUSTL, Emory
Applied: GMU PT/FT, GW PT, Gtown PT, Emory, UGA, BC, Tulane, WUSTL

blk_reign

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Re: Home Ownership and Wealth Building
« Reply #159 on: May 18, 2005, 03:35:19 PM »
I'm not saying that we don't...but I'm also a Realist...
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...