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Author Topic: The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions  (Read 11493 times)

bobfett33

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Re: The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2004, 04:28:15 AM »
Gosh, smittie, you're right -

the media are in the wrong for publishing news knowing it would cause a "backlash."  I suppose you're pretty upset at Woodward and Bernstein for their investigative reporting that lead to the exposure of Richard Nixon's involvement in the Watergate break-in.  Not to mention Seymore Hersh's report on the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam (Hersh, by the way, was the one who obtained and first reported on the Taguba report, which lead to the world-wide exposure of the Abu Ghirab torture).  Surely Daniel Ellsberg should be hanged for publishing the Pentagon Papers, the release of which was instrumental in ending the Vietnam war.  And, I guess if tomorrow, a reporter obtained conclusive evidence that showed Bush & Co. had engaged in a systematic campaign to lie to the American people so that they would support a war, they should just keep their god damn mouths shut, right?

I suppose the next Constitutional amendment might just be that "The media shall publish no story unless it is deemed politically convenient for the President."  To be sure, there are laws against publishing extremely sensitive battle information, revealing the identities of NOC CIA agents, etc.  But, revealing the U.S. government's complicity in a regime of prison torture... it seems like open democracies would want that information - only the Axis of Evil would try to silence such unpleasant news.  Makes you wonder where we're living, doesn't it?

neverends

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Re: The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2004, 11:53:10 PM »
I think many of you give too much credit to some of the wontonly ignorant people on this board.

After Abu Ghirab came to light, a third of the prisoners were immediately released. Why would we do that? Because we conduct round ups that capture people that may or may NOT be terrorists.  We hold, torture, interogate, sometimes kill these people with absolutely no respect for basic rights.  Many of them have no relation to anything terror related.

This is disgusting, and part of a consistent trend in American policy.

But I'm sorry, I don't think the administration is idiotic. I think they are very purposely doing what they are doing, and I think they are very happy with the results. While most of us are waiting for renewable sources of energy the power structure in this country is looking for a renewable source of threat.
it's coming...

Freak

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Re: The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2004, 11:57:23 PM »
Personally I think we should treat these non-uniformed combatants like spies.  Give them a military tribunal for trial, if found guilty (i.e. they were fighting or otherwise opposing uniformed troops without wearing uniforms themselves), then take them out and shoot them.  As far as torture, we simply must not permanently leave a mark on them (hit them, but don't bruise them) except to execute them.  As far a counsel and all that jazz, give them a JAG officer, that's it.

As far as spending money on education and all that, forget it.  The Arabs have been at war with everyone since Biblical times, we will never change that.  They will be at war with everyone even if the U.S. cease to exist.  Isreal has also fought them for 1000's of years, giving up land for peace is stupid - they will never be at peace.
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bobfett33

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Re: The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2004, 01:54:55 PM »
"Isreal" is not a country.  If you mean Israel, they certainly haven't been fighting anybody for thousands of years, since Israel was only established in the 1940s.  Furthermore, saying that the Arabs have been at war with everyone since biblical times is like saying that Iraq has been at war with the U.S. since the early 1990s.  Europe waged four holy wars (the crusades) against Muslims.  Just like the U.S. invading Iraq twice, white people have generally been the primary aggressors.

Oh, and to Neverends: I understand what you're saying, but don't get me wrong - I fully estimate the wanton ignorance of many people on the board.  But that doesn't mean I can abrogate my responsibility to bring important facts to light, and debunk untruths wherever they are found. :)

jgruber

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Re: The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2004, 02:17:13 PM »
I don't think America should cast stones and accusations about being a warring people.

We started by war, invaded another country just 9 years after we finished the revolution and have been fighting wars ever since. 


Freak

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Re: The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions
« Reply #65 on: July 04, 2004, 03:48:19 PM »
I seem to recall the Arabs getting stopped in France a while back and "white people" have basically been at war with them since.

As for Israel (yes thanks for the spell checker, but you missed another typo) you are right to an extent.  Yes Israel again became a nation in 1947 after over a thousand years of not being one. However, there have been Jews in that area for almost as long as there has been Jews.  In addition, they have fought Arabs most of that time (and almost everyone else for that matter).  The point is not that a nation is a warring nation or not (usually you don't become a nation without going to war or stay one for long without fighting again).

Specifically speaking of Israel and the Arabs they simply will never be at peace.  They never have been for very long (except of when Israel ceased to exist as a nation).  Some of both parties may want peace, but heck the PLO charter still calls for the destruction of Israel.  In addition, the Old Testament (basically the Jewish charter though some will only consider the first 5 books) pretty much sets the Jews up against everybody else.  If we stay allies with Israel then we'll also be at war with the Arabs.  Oh since you'll mention it, I do think we should stay allies with them.  Why?  Well if you read the Book they win and everyone else gets wasted.  The Bible predicted they would become a nation again and they did and that's not the only thing it has predicted.  Besides it just plain makes sense.

But getting back to the original topic.  I wish to refine my initial post.  The point of an interrogation is to scare someone into telling you the information you need.  In the US police take a suspect into a room and 3 of them will scream all sorts of stuff at them and threaten all kinds of terrible consequences if they don't confess (yes they can lie).  Personally I think this is wrong except in a life or death situation.  But with these combatants it is a life or death situation.  In addition, it is a whole lot harder to scare one of them than a US citizen.  So yes you do more.  Now if they turn out to be "not guilty" then you give them a $100,000 and turn them loose.  Yes I stated it give them money (over there you can live like a king with $100k US).  That would be at least a small compensation for going through psychological hell.
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bobfett33

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Re: The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions
« Reply #66 on: July 05, 2004, 12:13:13 AM »
Once I've saved up $100,000, I want to "rent a room" over at Abu Ghraib.  I'll take Freak with me, and I'll pay him all $100,000, in exchange for my being able to subject him to "stress and duress" - and, yes, it will involve pain without leaving a mark, it will involve dogs, ladies' underwear... and lots and lots of Eurythmics music videos.

jgruber

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Re: The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions
« Reply #67 on: July 05, 2004, 12:25:15 PM »

Specifically speaking of Israel and the Arabs they simply will never be at peace. 

What else does your crystal ball tell you?  That the Mets will never win the World Series?

Ginatio

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Re: The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions
« Reply #68 on: July 05, 2004, 12:39:22 PM »
i dunno about his, but mine is telling me to invest heavily in cotton candy stock...


Specifically speaking of Israel and the Arabs they simply will never be at peace. 

What else does your crystal ball tell you?  That the Mets will never win the World Series?

Freak

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Re: The Common Plan to Violate the Geneva Conventions
« Reply #69 on: July 05, 2004, 02:16:05 PM »
I don't live in Iraq so you'd have to translate that $ into what it would equal to live like a king here ~ 10 million or so, but hey you get that together and give me a call. 

As for the other posts, sarcasm?  Donít waste my time.
Freak is the best, Freak is the best!  Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
I don't like calling you Freak, I'd rather call you  Normal Nice Guy.