Law School Discussion

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Julie Fern

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Re: Iran/ What's to Come?
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2005, 06:50:34 AM »
Divide is saying we should have buddied up with the mooooollaaaaahs. That would have prevented this. I just can't believe that people still believe allying yourself with these psychopaths prevents disaster. Republicans have made this mistake often too, but after Saddam and Bin Laden, isn't it time we realize appeasement just doesn't work in the long run.


which, unfortunately, includes appeasing u.s.

Julie Fern

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Re: Iran/ What's to Come?
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2005, 06:53:32 AM »
no dribble in there.  I'm just hesitant to try and play the pay em off and keep them quiet card.  Hasn't worked before for the long haul.  Buys you a couple years, maybe longer but the problem doesn't disappear.


Even under Khatemi, how much authority would have lied with the mullahs?

it'd be nice if any military option in iran could occur after u.s. ouit of iraq.  of course, that not going to happen until we apply for that social security that phanny says won't be there.

Julie Fern

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Re: Iran/ What's to Come?
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2005, 06:57:19 AM »
you just made me think about something: It would be very easy to embellish a border skirmish to make Iran appear as the aggressor. If that could be pulled of, legitimacy instantly established. ::shudders::

our country would never do that!

Julie Fern

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Re: Iran/ What's to Come?
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2005, 07:03:09 AM »
do we have truly reliable proof than iran is making nuclear weapons?  (of course, we must consider extent to which dubya and his minions telling analysts what to conclude, as was case with iraq.) 

Julie, now that everyone else is off on another tangent, let me ask you about this comment. I'm curious as to whether you've had an opportunity to read the Robb-Silberman report yet? Most people don't read 600+ pages of government report willingly, but having just finished my thesis on intel reform I did.

julie only remembers news reports that were rather critical of quality of our intelligence, which no surprise to julie.  one advantage of true international cooperation is that we pool resources and seemingly have less tendency for politicians to influence analysts' conclusions.

what else you got? 

PresClay_00

Re: Iran/ What's to Come?
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2005, 07:07:53 AM »
do we have truly reliable proof than iran is making nuclear weapons?  (of course, we must consider extent to which dubya and his minions telling analysts what to conclude, as was case with iraq.) 
Julie, now that everyone else is off on another tangent, let me ask you about this comment. I'm curious as to whether you've had an opportunity to read the Robb-Silberman report yet? Most people don't read 600+ pages of government report willingly, but having just finished my thesis on intel reform I did.
julie only remembers news reports that were rather critical of quality of our intelligence, which no surprise to julie.  one advantage of true international cooperation is that we pool resources and seemingly have less tendency for politicians to influence analysts' conclusions.
what else you got? 

true international cooperation will never happen so long as countries like France, Germany and Russia maintain their inferiority complex.  They will block efforts at the UN, regardless of how necessary or effective they may be, if we are pushing for them.  they will drag their feet, stall, and pussyfoot around until they have delayed their way into a gratuitous presence.

Julie Fern

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Re: Iran/ What's to Come?
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2005, 07:15:17 AM »
true international cooperation will never happen so long as countries like France, Germany and Russia maintain their inferiority complex. They will block efforts at the UN, regardless of how necessary or effective they may be, if we are pushing for them. they will drag their feet, stall, and pussyfoot around until they have delayed their way into a gratuitous presence.

at moments like this, we should pause and reflect upon how great it is to happen to have been born into one country that always right.  we so lucky!

PresClay_00

Re: Iran/ What's to Come?
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2005, 07:21:25 AM »
true international cooperation will never happen so long as countries like France, Germany and Russia maintain their inferiority complex. They will block efforts at the UN, regardless of how necessary or effective they may be, if we are pushing for them. they will drag their feet, stall, and pussyfoot around until they have delayed their way into a gratuitous presence.

at moments like this, we should pause and reflect upon how great it is to happen to have been born into one country that always right.  we so lucky!

i wasn't even talking about recent evenets - they were opposed to even sending in investigators at first

Julie Fern

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Re: Iran/ What's to Come?
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2005, 07:39:07 AM »
true international cooperation will never happen so long as countries like France, Germany and Russia maintain their inferiority complex. They will block efforts at the UN, regardless of how necessary or effective they may be, if we are pushing for them. they will drag their feet, stall, and pussyfoot around until they have delayed their way into a gratuitous presence.

at moments like this, we should pause and reflect upon how great it is to happen to have been born into one country that always right.  we so lucky!

i wasn't even talking about recent evenets - they were opposed to even sending in investigators at first

oh.  your comments seem rather categorical.  smug, almost.

PresClay_00

Re: Iran/ What's to Come?
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2005, 07:45:42 AM »
true international cooperation will never happen so long as countries like France, Germany and Russia maintain their inferiority complex. They will block efforts at the UN, regardless of how necessary or effective they may be, if we are pushing for them. they will drag their feet, stall, and pussyfoot around until they have delayed their way into a gratuitous presence.

at moments like this, we should pause and reflect upon how great it is to happen to have been born into one country that always right.  we so lucky!

i wasn't even talking about recent evenets - they were opposed to even sending in investigators at first

oh.  your comments seem rather categorical.  smug, almost.

i'd hate to disappoint

LaneSwerver

Re: Iran/ What's to Come?
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2005, 07:51:50 AM »
do we have truly reliable proof than iran is making nuclear weapons?  (of course, we must consider extent to which dubya and his minions telling analysts what to conclude, as was case with iraq.) 

Julie, now that everyone else is off on another tangent, let me ask you about this comment. I'm curious as to whether you've had an opportunity to read the Robb-Silberman report yet? Most people don't read 600+ pages of government report willingly, but having just finished my thesis on intel reform I did.

julie only remembers news reports that were rather critical of quality of our intelligence, which no surprise to julie.  one advantage of true international cooperation is that we pool resources and seemingly have less tendency for politicians to influence analysts' conclusions.

what else you got? 

I think you would admit the commission was pretty critical, and very bipartisan. Ms. Dowd aside, the commission found "no evdience of political pressure to influence the Intelligence Community's pre-war assessments of Iraq's weapons programs."

According to the report, intelligence agencies shifted toward believing Saddam was reconstituting his nuclear program in early 2001, back when President Bush was essentially maintaining President Clinton’s Iraq policy and had no motive to agitate for more dire intelligence. The shift from saying that Iraq might have bio weapons to concluding that Saddam definitely had them had taken place in 2000, when Clinton was still in office. This information, and much more, was wrong. But the problem wasn’t that policymakers were pressuring intelligence officials. It was that intelligence officials were not making policymakers aware of how questionable their information was.

So I think your point of the Prez telling the analysts what to do is misleading, if not completely wrong.