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Neub

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BC vs. Wait lists
« on: April 24, 2005, 12:12:03 AM »
Ok, so I have put in my deposit at BC and I am perfectly happy attending there in the fall. I am however on 4 wait lists, UPenn/Michigan/GULC/Cornell, assuming my Cornell "reserve" turns into an official wait list. I am fairly sure I want to go into some type of BigLaw. I like Boston and would not mind living here for the near future. 

I guess my question is if all of these schools are easy picks over BC at this point. BC has given me a great financial package and the campus/area suits me well. I have many ties to the area, so the Boston area would be the obvious first pick for a job after school. I have heard that due to the majority of Harvard grads going to NYC, that BC (perhaps an argument for BU) is the top dog in Boston if not New England as a whole. I am just wondering if all of these factors bring BC up into the "T-14" level of the other schools in my scenario.

I have throughout this process assumed I would automatically attend the more prestigous schools, I just want to make sure that logic is sounds. Oh, and no I am not a rankings whore, I picked BC over GW and BU.

Let me know your thoughts.



BC 3L

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Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2005, 02:44:59 AM »
Hey Neub, I am in a similiar position to you regarding BC.  I am on a few waitlists at some T-14's.  I am trying to not get my hopes up, but I am not really feeling BC at the moment.  I'll get into that after I address your concerns.

In my opinion, yes any T-14 would be an easy pick over BC.  BC seems to be a great school, especially well regarded in the Boston area.  However, from all the anecdoctal evidence I have read from various sources, each source says that you MUST finish in the top 1/3 of the class to get one of these BIGLAW jobs.  I feel that this is a fairly accurate statistic since I've seen it pop up so much.  I realize that there are a few exceptions, but who really wants to plan on being that one exception to the general trend?  At any T-14, it seems that firms go deeper into the class than from any 20-30 ranked school.  Sure it may be difficult to get a firm job in Boston (a finicky legal market) if you are middle of the class at any T-14, but you probably will find a market rate (125K) associate position.  You can always lateral to a Boston firm if that is where you truly want to be.

I think it was wise choice to pick BC over the others if your inclination is to stay in the Boston area.  Hands down it seems BC gets their grads more firm placement than GW and even BU in the Boston area.


Okay so here is my situation, if you have any thoughts I'd be glad to read them.  So I am choosing between BC and Minnesota.  Both gave me nothing in terms of money, outside of the standard 18,5K Stafford loans.  Thus, it would be much cheaper for me to go to Minnesota than go to BC.  When I started the application process, I told myself money wouldn't sway me away from a school, but 150K in debt is a whole lot of debt (my debt load if I attend BC).  If I got to Minnesota, I am instate, it would be about 100K.  So that is something I am thinking about.  My personal preference would be to go to BC, but I am worried that I will assume massive debt and not be able to find a market salary job if I don't do well enough.  I also don't feel that BC would give me an advantage in job prospects over Minnesota.  Would BC give me an advantage in job prospects?  If I do well enough at either I probably won't have problems.  I also have no preference for where I want to study law (maybe NYC, but probably on the East coast). 

I am hoping to snag a spot of a waitlist, but I can't really count on that.  Well, this post is long enough.  Let me know what you decide!

miller

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Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2005, 12:03:09 PM »

Same boat, with the exact same waitlists that the OP has, except I did not apply to Cornell. I definitly feel that BC is the right place if I dont get off the waitlists, but I am keeping my fingers crossed. If they don't work out, then I am extremely happy with BC. It was hard picking between GW, BC, USC, and BU, but I am extremely happy with my choice. I love boston. It is a great city and yes, BC is considered the next best thing after Harvard, as opposed to what USnews said this year. I could care less about a magazine. I asked the attorneys I worked for and they all said BC over BU. Literally, everyone.

As for BC vs. Minn, I would pick the school that you really want to go to. BC has a slightly better reputation on the East coast, but if you want ot work in that area, then definitly go to Minn. I can't say much because i have never met an attorney from Minn, which may say something about where they place. That and another good question is how many minn grads have gotten SCOTUS (Spr Crt Clerkship) in the past. This is marginal, but another indicator of the quality of a school and its graduates. But seriously, you are in an awesome decision, as is the OP. We all wish we had those Waitlists, but imagine if BC or Minn were waitlists. That puts things in perspective for me sometimes.
HTH.
HTH.

Neub

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Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2005, 03:46:21 PM »
Thanks for the insight miller and rydogg.

I think we all went through the same thought process in choosing BC over other schools, which gives me a lot of confidence it was the right choice. I totally agree with you miller that we definitely need to keep things in perspective.  A couple missed questions on the lsat could have changed all our situations quite a bit.

With that said, I guess you all are reinforcing the idea that indeed a T14 caliber school is an easy choice. Realistically, I have to agree completely. I suppose I am trying to figure out a way to justify BC because of the hassle of figuring out summer plans and getting into an apartment. At some point I am going to have to put my foot down and commit to staying in Boston. I am thinking I will drag my feet until mid-June when a lot of second deposits become due.  What are all of you thinking?

As for the BC vs. Minn situation, definitely a tough one. First off, I know very little specifically about Minn Law, so this is very general. I do know it is a great school in the top 20 if rankings matter. I guess from my own perspective, I think the choice comes down to where you will be most comfortable studying and then working after school.  Both of these schools are regional to some extent, with over 50% of BC grads staying in New England and 67% of Minn. grads staying in the USNEWS area of Western North Central (ie Minnesota?). From looking at the stats, hardly any of Minn's grads move to the east coast.  This really doesn't say anything about if they could get jobs on the east coast but rather may just indicate a lot of self-selection for a mid-west career.

If you feel like you want to have some options on the east coast, although biased to Boston, I think BC is your best bet.  If however you are comfortable in Minnesota and would like to work in the area after school, take the cheaper tuition and run.

DeltaTauKyle

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Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2005, 10:40:08 PM »
Same situation, BC vs. Duke waitlist.  However, BC gave me some money, which is making me go forward with plans to attend.
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BC 3L

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Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2005, 09:53:03 AM »
Nueb and Miller thanks for the input.  I think I will probably be making my decision as close as possible to the second deposit due date.  maybe we'll all end up at BC (probably quite likely).

cheers.

nubova

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Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2005, 11:24:05 AM »

Miller,
I don't know how much this helps, but I was in kind of the same situation. I dont pay too much attention to rankings when they are within a few spots, but BC has a great name, better than its current ranking. Here are the USNews spots from the past.

1990   Boston College   20
1992   Boston College   22
1993   Boston College   19
1994   Boston College   24
1997   Boston College   22
1998   Boston College   22
2000   Boston College   23
2001   Boston College   22
2002   Boston College   22
2003   Boston College   22
2004   Boston College    29
2005     Boston College    27

As you can see, in 2004, there was a huge drop. However, it is rising back up in the rankings. I just found it interesting and optimistic. Employers and lawyers out in the field remember the lawschool rankings from when they were applying. While a 5 spot drop should not deter you anyways, I have also found that the general sentiment in the legal realm is that BC is as good as any other Law School, if not better, and it is definitly better than BU.  The law school has reportedly put together a commission to see what happened, but as you know, usnews is on a fairly significant time lag of around 2 years, so any adjustments probably wont make it into the USnews till next spring.

BC 3L

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Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2005, 12:13:59 PM »
great information nebova.  while i don't take yearly rankings to heart, general trends are important to recognize.  the trend (if one can call it that after only 2 years) is that bu is probably going to overtake bc.  i don't think that there will ever be a big difference between the two schools (and i don't think that they are all that different now--even though everyone seems to think bc is hands down a better school).  bu has a lot going for it at the moment (great faculty, employment stats, etc.).  the building is the only thing that is holding it down. 

back to bc though, i am curious what the peer scores are historically for bc.  i wonder if their peer score will go down due to two consecutive years sub-25.  brian leiter seems to think that peer scores follow the usnews, so that if a few years bc will likely take a hit in their rep. scores. 

no real point to my thread, just providing some food for thought.

Neub

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Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2005, 02:40:44 PM »
rydogg...I believe the BC peer score has already declined a bit.

Last Year
BC Peer 3.4 Lawyers/Judges 3.5
BU Peer 3.4 Lawyers/Judges 3.4

This Year
BC Peer 3.3 Lawyers/Judges 3.5
BU Peer 3.4 Lawyers/Judges 3.4

I agree with you that the peer score probably is closely tied to any changes in USNEWS and thus this years decline.  However, I think the big drop hit BC by surprise and they will be able to climb back before any "real" damage is done to the lawyers/judges reputation score, something I put a lot more weight in.

Ultimately, I think you hit the major point right on the head. There will never be a great deal of difference between the schools, regardless of weighted rankings.  It all comes down to preference.

miller

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Re: BC vs. Wait lists
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2005, 04:47:00 PM »

I always like it when people compare BC and BU. I guess it is a very clear demonstration of how much weight people give USnews. After having talked to numerous attorneys, every one of them has told me to go to BC over BU; basically, there really is a big difference, as opposed to what USnews says this year. After telling attorneys where I got in, there was such a high expectation that I would choose BC, that they thought I was crazy to even consider BU. I think both are good schools though, but I wanted a school with a good reputation and one that I would be proud to have on my resume.
Anyways, I would never say BU has overtaken BC. BU will never have the name recognition of BC, unless people get them confused, haha. Well, this is my opinion, so dont take it for an assertion of fact.

HTH.