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Author Topic: What did you learn from PLS II?  (Read 2910 times)

Kilgore

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Re: What did you learn from PLS II?
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2005, 11:30:22 PM »
Jesus...do you sleep with this thing under your pillow or something?

I haven't read Moby D1ck in 10 years. But if someone said it's about a dolphin that made friends with a lost sailor and the two lived happily ever after i'd be able to state: "ummm .... no it isn't, in fact - that's pretty much the opposite of what Moby D1ck was about". With any book i read i take away from it the major points the book makes. All of the statements NJ made (save the one i singled out) are so patently opposite of the major points of the book that they really were similiar to the "dolphin loves sailor" Moby D1ck interpretation i presented above.

How much will you pay me if I tell you you're right?

Ver

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Re: What did you learn from PLS II?
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2005, 12:05:00 AM »
The book does rant at times but the background seems helpful in establishing the reasoning for some of his suggestions.

His claim that in the past casebooks had primers included, which have since been removed, justifies his suggestion to study primers in addition to your casebook. The reason for doing this before law school is that professors keep you going at such a fast pace that it's easier to grasp the material if you already have some base knowledge.


I think this book has the potential to be helpful. How can it hurt? No one has seemed to answer that question. I already stay current with the news and minored in philosophy (Aristotles The Politics is a recommended read), so it's not like I am failing to addressing those concerns.

For me, if doing this prep work prevents stress (even a small amount) it will be worth the trouble.

Kilgore

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Re: What did you learn from PLS II?
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2005, 12:19:44 AM »


I think this book has the potential to be helpful. How can it hurt? No one has seemed to answer that question.




I'll try, with the caveat that nothing I say applies universally. 

First, there's no guarantee that serious prepping will actually help.  There is no way to know if you're acutally understanding what you read (I know some of you are confident in your intelligence, but it's definitely possible that you won't learn a thing) until you get to law school and hear it all again.  You may find that it distorts your perception of the law, preventing you from seeing things as your professors want you to see them.  The maxim "exams are all black-letter law" is just not true in every case.  I can only speak for myself here (as many people on this board seem loathe to admit), but my exams have been decidedly unconcerned with black-letter law.  So of course prepping might help in some cases, but I think that in most cases, the benefits are more or less zero.

If I'm right about the average value of prepping, then spending all that money and time doing it is probalby a huge waste.  In this sense, prepping will probably do more harm than good for most people.  This is especially true for all of you who seem to "know" that prepping will help you without having spend a day in law school. 

I've noticed that a lot of people like to say "I've heard from, like, everybody I've talked to that prepping helps,"  or "I know a guy who followed PLS and did really well."  First of all, this is second-hand evidence over the internet, and it's inherently suspect.  I can just as easily say that everybody I've ever talked to has told me that prepping is a waste.  This kind of statement is pointless.  Second, even if these statements were true, we don't have any control variable to compare them against.  For one person to say that prepping helped without having gone through the same experience without prepping is also meaningless.




Ver

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Re: What did you learn from PLS II?
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2005, 12:57:42 AM »
As far as black letter law, the author suggests that while an exam might not focus primarily on black letter law it does serve as a base for your knowledge which in turn leads to understanding.

sambassoon

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Re: What did you learn from PLS II?
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2005, 01:12:52 AM »
As a poster pointed out, taking advice from a 0L about the best way to prepare (or if you should at all) may not be wise, but I will rely on my past experiences to answer whether PLS II is helpful.  For one, I cannot see how information (what is contained in the E&Es) can hurt anyone.  I firmly believe the more one knows, the better one will be.  I sat on one course which I had read the E&E primer six months ago, yet I knew the basics of what the prof was talking about.  I knew what he was going to say before he said it.  This encourages active learning, i.e. internally asking questions about the profs statements.  Active learners retain much more information than passive learners (those typing like mad trying to get everything the prof is saying, rather than thinking about it).  I felt that I could focus on the details and subtle points of his lecture, rather than trying to learn the material for the first time.  Again, it seems to be just common sense, the better one knows a subject, the better one will perform.  I also think, with this luxury of being able to focus more on the prof, I will be able to pick up on what he will test on, or what he considers important.  I had semi-prepped for an undergrad class that was notorious for its difficulty and I had a similar experience as the law class I recently sat in on.  As to Kilgoreís comments (Iím not saying he is wrong), Atticus concedes he has not proven the effectiveness of this method, but I have confidence in my judgment, and I think it is sound advice.  Also, if an exam covers mostly policy, I think (disclaimer: I know I am a 0L) knowing black letter law will support your exam writing.  AF says BLL is crystallized policy, which has established reasoning (i.e. policy) supporting it.  It seems prepping is the process of a linear learning sequence: learn BLL, then learn the policy behind BLL, thus then you are able to discuss policy.  Since I was a serious musician, I may find comfort in the prep method since it is similar to my old routine of practice, practice, practice and thus prepping/practicing is a familiar formula for success.  At the very least, I believe it will alleviate some of the work load from my 1L year by spreading it over a larger period of time.  If I am way off target, please let me know. 

Bahamut

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Re: What did you learn from PLS II?
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2005, 02:24:52 AM »
Maybe if you learned how to read in English, you would have seen that he makes no such assumptions or assertions. Give me a break.  ::)

Yum...a basher!
I learned how to read in English and as a result of my international studies and military service, I also speak Italian, French and some Japanese, but that is besides the point. Bahamut, you don't know me and it was quite un-necessary to bash me personally. The OP asked "what was learned from PLSII" and I replied with MY OPINION.

As far as prepping is concerned, I believe it is important to prep, especially if you have been out of school for a while, as I have.

 



I'm glad you can speak those languages. I was commenting on your interpretation abilities, because your comments about the book are completely incorrect. Sorry, try again.
SMU Fall '05

Lgirl

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Re: What did you learn from PLS II?
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2005, 06:33:19 AM »
Ok, I'm not going to argue on the benefits or prepping or not.
I am prepping. That is all I want ti say before I wirite my opinion in response the the OP's question.

Everything useful in PLII, imo, I remind you, can be found in Law School Confidential. Which books to use etc. It is telling that one posteer here advised people interested in PLII to just look at Chapter 16. This book is way too long. And before anyone starts telling me that books inb LS will be longer etc, don't bother. I'm a literature stuent and am quite used to long books and don't object to them. What I _do_ object to, is reading something in three (or more) times the length I could have read it. I think the author is haughty, I don't appreciate scare-tactics and find them patronising, and I think he/she writes very poorly and all of this bothers me if I'm reading hundreds of pages of it. Maybe by following all the advice I qwould do well, but the author has no right to insinuate that by not following I _won't_ do well. This, as Jacy said, is simply not true and not provable.
In law school we must learn to be concise, not self indulgent, and self-indulgent is how I would describe PLII. Noone has a year to prep for law school. A JD isn't meant to be fuor years long!
Law Schools Confidential is more professionally written, more readable, shorter and, to my mind, contains just enuogh information to prepare us for 1L.

winslow757

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Re: What did you learn from PLS II?
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2005, 11:13:45 AM »
It amazes me how many people seem to fundamentally misunderstand what PLSII suggests. It does not say prep and you will make law review. It does not say that the prep work replaces the work you will need to in law school. It serves as a kind of compass to keep you oriented in the right direction. It is to help you avoid the herd mentality that develops in LS where you are sent scrambling to piece your way through an amount of work you could not possibly finish and it helps you to focus on what work you should emphasize.

I have been doing the prep work for the last few months. It doesn't mean outlining before you get to law school, it means getting a brief introduction to the tools you will need to employ in order to gain a higher understanding of the law later on. I feel the work is valuable to me because I enjoy the subject matter and I enjoy the mode of thinking that comes along with it. And after finishing one of the primers, I downloaded a past exam from a school I've been accepted to and spent some time responding to the questions--not full out exam style, but just to see if I could do it. And I hit probably 80% of the issues listed in the model answer provided, caught the red herrings, and didn't write anything blatantly false. That appears helpful to me, considering I haven't spent a day in LS yet.
Accepted: Brooklyn w/17.5K, Suffolk, NYLS w/ 20K
Pending: Northeastern, Cardozo, American
Rejected: GW, Fordham (no surprise there)

158+164/3.74

NJHandyGirl

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Re: What did you learn from PLS II?
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2005, 11:41:15 AM »
It amazes me that I am being personally attacked for my personal opinion on something I purchased and read. My opinion makes me no better, or no worse than anyone else. You guys are attacking me as if I said negative things about the Pope! Geez, hope AF is paying you well.

In my PERSONAL OPINION, I thought the book was the law school equivalent of Dianetics--too many rantings and far too long...for goodness sakes, there is an entire chapter called "whiners" about people who discredit the book--who cares? You like it or you don't. I didn't.

The main point is, what works for one person may not work for others. I intend to take the Law Preview class and in the meantime, intend to read, what are, in MY OPINION, more worthwhile books, such as Law Stories, E&E, Intro. to Legal Reasoning, etc. The fact is, none of us are in law school yet and will not know what has helped until we go.

Good luck to everyone.
Attending: Georgia State
I'm not a lawyer, I just watch one on TV.

BigTex

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Re: What did you learn from PLS II?
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2005, 12:29:15 PM »
It amazes me that I am being personally attacked for my personal opinion on something I purchased and read. My opinion makes me no better, or no worse than anyone else. You guys are attacking me as if I said negative things about the Pope! Geez, hope AF is paying you well.

In my PERSONAL OPINION, I thought the book was the law school equivalent of Dianetics--too many rantings and far too long...for goodness sakes, there is an entire chapter called "whiners" about people who discredit the book--who cares? You like it or you don't. I didn't.

The main point is, what works for one person may not work for others. I intend to take the Law Preview class and in the meantime, intend to read, what are, in MY OPINION, more worthwhile books, such as Law Stories, E&E, Intro. to Legal Reasoning, etc. The fact is, none of us are in law school yet and will not know what has helped until we go.

Good luck to everyone.

This post is all completely legitimate criticism and expression of your opinion. You were being called out earlier not for expressing your opinion, but for attributing to PLS2 statements which it did not make. I happen to agree with much of what you say above. PLS2 is very whiny and that gets irritating after the 100th time. However, PLS2 never implies that you're doomed if you have below a 170 or any of the other statements you previously mentioned (except the one i singled out).

As you can see, i've not responded to any of the people above who think that prepping will not help and will in fact be harmful. I have not done so because each is expressing his/her opinion. There's no sense in arguing with an opinion someone has formed. There's really no solid factual data for any of us to rationally believe one way or the other about prepping - it's all hunch and pure opinion at this point. But in your previous statements you did more than express your opinion, you implied that PLS2 makes statements that it does not.

Not a big deal, but i tend to call people on that and i expect to be called on it when i do it too (and i do it myself sometimes - we're all human).