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Author Topic: The Racism Issue  (Read 20461 times)

Lawprofessor

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Re: The Racism Issue
« Reply #80 on: April 22, 2005, 01:09:14 PM »

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I generalize, because without that, you could never have anything to say about a group of people.  Go over the the thread about affirmative action and read some of the posts from white people who complain that affirmative action hurt them.  They dont think that there is a need for affirmative action.  There is still racism out there in numbers so great it would stagger you.  There was a post I just read about 5 minutes ago about a covenant on a house that wouldnt allow the current owner to sell that house to black people, the U of Ill had to bus out minorities because of a threat against them.  If you are in the law for social change, that is great, grab an orr and start rowing.  The only way for the doors to open up for people of color in all fields is for more people of color to enter those fields and more white people to open their eyes and see the world for what it is.  One thing is that if you are in denial that institutional racism exists (and I am not saying you are, but commenting on your statement that many white people are) then you are part of the problem because you stand in the way of change because you dont even know that a problem exits.  I understand what you are saying about the statements that all white people are this and all white people are that (and I dont believe anything about all of anybody) but since you cant see things from this perspective, it is hard for you to say what we should be doing and how we should say things.
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I get what you are saying. I just had been keeping an eye on this thread because I am particularly interested in these issues and I had read plenty of good points from you, but I just thought it was over the top. Same with the thing about whites and fortitude. I guess my gut reaction was, my grandfather was killed by nazi's, grandmother came on a boat with her kids, spoke no english, had no money, and was tough as can be. I just don't think fortitude belongs to one group. I am aware that I didn't face those obstacles, so I haven't been hardened in the way that dealing with daily racism must cause. Yes, I am keenly aware that the law is not equal and that instutional racism exists.

I have been often angered and embarrassed by the stupid darn many white people say about affirmative action on this site, also in college, and in other experiences in life. Many have painted pretty pictures over reality to imagine that everything is more fair than it is, or make comments like "it just needs to start with education." without any understanding that in impoverished areas, there are no books in the classrooms, a shortage of teachers, language obstacles to overcome, and that the education is far from equal.

I do understand why you generalize, it is too complex to sum everything up. I guess I would have just preferred the word some or many in front of white people as opposed to a blanket statement but I appreciate you explaining where you were coming from.

 

Point well taken.  I appreciate what you have to say YT. <----- just kidding.

Really, very well explained and I get where you are coming from.
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Ladyday

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Re: The Racism Issue
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2005, 01:10:51 PM »

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That's why I hate it when people say things like: this is America and Black people should stop complaining and do for themselves like everyone else. How can you move up in life if every step of the way there is some one doing everything in their power to knock you back down? People don't seem to understand all that minorities go through. When we accomplish something it's always despite the odds.
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The reason racism still exists is because white people dont want to give their power up.  Those who have power dont give it up without a fight.  White people have this mentality that they are owed something, and when they dont get it they blame the only person they can find, minorities.  I dont want you on my campus.  I am going to call in and threaten you.  I didnt get into law school, a minority MUST have taken my place.  They white people who are extremely insecure are the ones who like to cause the  trouble and attack minorities.  White people dont see things that way...that we accomplish something inspite of the odds aginst us....they think it is easy being black.  I wish every white person could live life as a person of color for a year (without knowing that they have the ability to go back to the old way).  they will see things in a very different way.
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There are some huge generalizations here. Yes, I am sick and tired of every white person that bitches about not getting in because a minority took their spot, or assuming every black that gets into law school got in because of AA. They are idiots, it's annoying. I see it on this site all the time.

It is true, people with power don't want to give it up, but certainly, many if not the vast majority of white people don't suscribe to these ideals. When choosing a law school, it was important for me to find one with diversity, and very few are diverse enough. I can't live as a black for a year, it has been attempted in novels or bad movies (Soul Man), but I can't. I can't live as a Mexican for a day as the other poster mentioned. What I can do is attempt to get to know as many people of different backgrounds from myself, travel when possible to see places beyond my city/state/country, to gain whatever understanding I can and read from the experiences of people that have suffered. I certainly have not been a victim of institutionalized racism, (although I have been jumped due to being white, and teased by my sports teammates or other friends), and it is obvious that many whites are in denial that this institutionalized darn persists.

One of the reasons I was leery of choosing law is because it is an area that is not open to all people, but many people want these things to change and undoubtedly it takes great effort to bring about changes in the system.

I know racism still exists, in a number of ways, some subtle, some overt. I just don't think it helps anything when you say white people this, white people that. Plenty of white people have no illusions that it is easy being black. I know you hate it when some white guy says black people this or Mexican people that.

Well, sorry if I missed the context in some way, but those are my two cents.


I appreciate what you said. Every person is different and as I said before, everyone has their own prejudices. The best thing for us to do is, like you said, get to know each other better and not generalize. But I have to say that it is hard to do so when most of the people of a certain race have treated you a certain way. Not every white person is racist, but many who have the power to make things hard on Blacks are, and that's a problem.

Touche, like Christina said, crowdaddy, I definetely respect your opinion, but it is hard when your people have been persecuted by another group of people who happen to share the same skin color.

Lawprofessor

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Re: The Racism Issue
« Reply #82 on: April 22, 2005, 01:12:37 PM »
Yeah, I think the "uncommon educated mexican" remark was a little degrading. I'm not Mexican, and I don't know how many Mexicans go to college, but that comment leads me to believe that the answer is not many. Perhaps this is not a great way to talk about your people. However, I understand what you're saying, and the truth is none of us know what it's like to be of a different race. We all have prejudices. So for the white guy who would like to be an ally, I would say just keep an open mind and be normal. There's not anything specific for you to do except be supportive and be a friend when you some one dealing with racism.













the answer really is "not too many".  of my entire HS graduating class of 600+ students, only about 200 of us actually went to college.  i'd say that only 100 of us have graduated, and so far as i know, only 2 of us are in medical school, one is in grad school, and i am the only one on my way to law school.

when it finally came down to which UG to attend, i turned down NYU for a tiny rich, white private school in austin bc it was closer to home and bc of the money i was getting.  i was the recipient of a the College Assistance MIGRANT Program scholarship.  yes, Migrant.  as in, my family was so poor that we had to travel up to the white-washed sh!t towns of Minnesota and North Dakota to pull the weeds from the mile-long rows of crops in the white man's fields.  the worst part was that any mexican in these sh!t towns stood out like a sore thumb and the damned white man let us know that we weren't welcome.

i've got plenty more to say but i don't want to make this post too long.  i just don't understand why i have to watch my back with you all.  why is it that you all can talk about growing up in the ghetto but i can't throw a word out about growing up in the dirty BARRIO?  we haven't been through the exact same things, but f---, we're not white so we've all had our share of sh!t to deal with.  i thought some you knew better.

To quote one of my close friends when another good friend who is Korean was telling about all the losses her family took during the LA riots. My partna looked at her and said but did they lose korea? This is the wrong group to try and get some sympathy based on same ghetto stories. My thing is just dont generalize, have you seen the documentary that one an Oscar a few years back about the black family in mississippi, still share croppin' pickin' cotton and sh!@# not finishing school past elemenatry. And thats real but their story doesnt make the rest of the black communities uncommon.
And professor you in DC I need to schedule you in at next years NBLSA Im even going to bump you ahead of RBG

Omegaman.....Yes, I am in DC, but I am about to pull out this summer and head south to ORLANDO! :)  Home of this years NBA annual conference.  You can schedule me next year at the NBLSA and that is right, bump me ahead of RBG, he aint nuffin but a #%@!.
Back in the saddle again.

Omegaman

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Re: The Racism Issue
« Reply #83 on: April 22, 2005, 01:13:33 PM »

.  and i'm not talking about an uncommon educated mexican like myself.  i'm talking about mexicans like my cousins who don't know a lick of english. 
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If this isnt the Dumbest SH#$% Ive heard yet on this board. Where you live as an uncommon educated mexican Tiajuanna? I live in a stat that just had a huge parade and funeral for a mexican activist and a mexican senator attended along with the former mayor in which the Denver airport is on federico Pena blvd but you uncommon and educated ???

















Omegaman, you named four educated mexican's (that is if you assume that the one who had the blvd named after him was educated).  That does not make every or even most mexican's educated.  I am not mexican and dont know any mexicans and so I cant say what she said was dumb or smart, but I have to take her at her word.  Are you mexican?  Why do we have to be insulting on our attacks of people?



Nikka are you fo real. Just because she says shes mexican Im suppossed to take her word for something I know isnt true that Mexican are educated come to Colorado I went to a bilingual elemnetary school , here at the University of Colorado a mofo would get they azz wupped saying its uncommon for mexicans to be educated. One my close partners is mexican getting a PhD at emory so yeah thats uncommon. What she should have said was maybe in the environment that shes in but you call yourself a professor and you dont have enough sense to know that it would be know different than a black person saying that Im an uncommon educated black person. But since you dont mexicans thats too complicated for you to figure out, professor ???
Besides Mexican women helped get me through undergrad with the beautiful hard working azzes and ive got to defend them One time a brother almost got called by some sistas because he made an announcement in the BSA office that sistas had been properly releived, and that the latino woman was the new mother of civilization. We love'm here they just like sitas they come mexican fraternities and sorrorities, show the brothas and sistas love. But according to professor we need to take white folks word that blacks in africa eat each other and walk around with bones in their noses because they would know they've been there

Man, I am as for real as it gets.  She did not say she was the ONLY educated mexican.  She said it was uncommon.  While I might not agree with her, or I might.....I am not mexican and proclaim to know more about mexicans than she does.  I am not saying you should take her word for it, but you said that her statement was the dumbest sh*t you ever heard.  Why dont you just ask her to explain herself, or is it that if we dont agree with the great and powerful Omegaman we are wrong.  Look how you step to people when you disagree, is that what you learned from college?  I hope you are not in law school with the way you approach people and attack people.  So it is alright for you to say that mexican's getting a phd is uncommon, but her statement is dumb sh*t?????  By your approach, that is the dumbest sh*t I have ever heard!!!! First of all, you need to work on your grammar.  Second, your statement comparing a statement about black people and mexican people is incorrect.  It is not the same thing.  For it to be the same thing blacks and mexicans would have to be educated to the same level and the numbers of blacks and mexicans would have to be the same....There are more things that need to be the same, but no need to get into it here.  

So, because mexican women helped you get through undergrad means that her statement is incorrect and dumb?  There is no correlation between what mexican women helping you get through college and her statement.  There are just too many flaws in your statement to point out them all...I think I have done enough.  I just think you are spitting just a little too much venom.

First of female dog azz nikka if I was writing a paper for class I would focus more on my grammar, second the whole point was that no one should generalize and certain people have these same generalization stories, and of course the issue wasnt scientific. And your right Blacks and mexicans are different we were brought here and they weren't. They have chosen to come here.
And you think what this is a official, argument forum. yeah i spit Venom sometimes because im a Black man in corporate america, and Ive got a few issues.

seu2002

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Re: The Racism Issue
« Reply #84 on: April 22, 2005, 01:15:38 PM »
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Nikka are you fo real. Just because she says shes mexican Im suppossed to take her word for something I know isnt true that Mexican are educated come to Colorado I went to a bilingual elemnetary school , here at the University of Colorado a mofo would get they azz wupped saying its uncommon for mexicans to be educated. One my close partners is mexican getting a PhD at emory so yeah thats uncommon. What she should have said was maybe in the environment that shes in but you call yourself a professor and you dont have enough sense to know that it would be know different than a black person saying that Im an uncommon educated black person. But since you dont mexicans thats too complicated for you to figure out, professor ???
Besides Mexican women helped get me through undergrad with the beautiful hard working azzes and ive got to defend them One time a brother almost got called by some sistas because he made an announcement in the BSA office that sistas had been properly releived, and that the latino woman was the new mother of civilization. We love'm here they just like sitas they come mexican fraternities and sorrorities, show the brothas and sistas love. But according to professor we need to take white folks word that blacks in africa eat each other and walk around with bones in their noses because they would know they've been there


You're completely overgeneralizing.  For the better, I might add.  I'm glad you think that my people are educated, but sadly, it's not true. 

Your statement, as flattering as it is, is ludicrous.  It's as if I was going aroud saying that bc the only black men that I've come in contact with are all thugs, then all black men are thugs.  Or, on the flattering side, that bc I've met a few black men who are doctors, then all black men are doctors.  Your logic is OFF, Omegaman.  We're not all educated. 

Thanks, law professor, for your post. 

HBCU.EDU

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Re: The Racism Issue
« Reply #85 on: April 22, 2005, 01:15:49 PM »
You know, you will never find a white person in america that has
ANY past connections with racism/slavery/jim crow whatever you wanna call it. You will alwasy hear white people say "well, we came over here poor form eastern europe and we learned to love everybody...." ruskie use to say that *&^% all the time. Doesn't matter dude. You are white and you get all the advantages that slavery created for you. I'm out. 

Ladyday

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Re: The Racism Issue
« Reply #86 on: April 22, 2005, 01:19:36 PM »
Omega,  :o

Im even going to bump you ahead of RBG

dayum, fo real?

yeah i spit Venom sometimes because im a Black man in corporate america, and Ive got a few issues.

LMAO.

Omegaman

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Re: The Racism Issue
« Reply #87 on: April 22, 2005, 01:23:45 PM »
Yeah, I think the "uncommon educated mexican" remark was a little degrading. I'm not Mexican, and I don't know how many Mexicans go to college, but that comment leads me to believe that the answer is not many. Perhaps this is not a great way to talk about your people. However, I understand what you're saying, and the truth is none of us know what it's like to be of a different race. We all have prejudices. So for the white guy who would like to be an ally, I would say just keep an open mind and be normal. There's not anything specific for you to do except be supportive and be a friend when you some one dealing with racism.













the answer really is "not too many".  of my entire HS graduating class of 600+ students, only about 200 of us actually went to college.  i'd say that only 100 of us have graduated, and so far as i know, only 2 of us are in medical school, one is in grad school, and i am the only one on my way to law school.

when it finally came down to which UG to attend, i turned down NYU for a tiny rich, white private school in austin bc it was closer to home and bc of the money i was getting.  i was the recipient of a the College Assistance MIGRANT Program scholarship.  yes, Migrant.  as in, my family was so poor that we had to travel up to the white-washed sh!t towns of Minnesota and North Dakota to pull the weeds from the mile-long rows of crops in the white man's fields.  the worst part was that any mexican in these sh!t towns stood out like a sore thumb and the damned white man let us know that we weren't welcome.

i've got plenty more to say but i don't want to make this post too long.  i just don't understand why i have to watch my back with you all.  why is it that you all can talk about growing up in the ghetto but i can't throw a word out about growing up in the dirty BARRIO?  we haven't been through the exact same things, but f---, we're not white so we've all had our share of sh!t to deal with.  i thought some you knew better.

To quote one of my close friends when another good friend who is Korean was telling about all the losses her family took during the LA riots. My partna looked at her and said but did they lose korea? This is the wrong group to try and get some sympathy based on same ghetto stories. My thing is just dont generalize, have you seen the documentary that one an Oscar a few years back about the black family in mississippi, still share croppin' pickin' cotton and sh!@# not finishing school past elemenatry. And thats real but their story doesnt make the rest of the black communities uncommon.
And professor you in DC I need to schedule you in at next years NBLSA Im even going to bump you ahead of RBG

Omegaman.....Yes, I am in DC, but I am about to pull out this summer and head south to ORLANDO! :)  Home of this years NBA annual conference.  You can schedule me next year at the NBLSA and that is right, bump me ahead of RBG, he aint nuffin but a #%@!.


what a coincidence. we had already been planning on attending that conference, i have fam rollin' in from DC too. Yeah Ill schedule you in , so you can give me some of those grammar lesson, and how to properly construct and argument. I cant wait.

blk_reign

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Re: The Racism Issue
« Reply #88 on: April 22, 2005, 01:25:10 PM »
I just don't think fortitude belongs to one group. I am aware that I didn't face those obstacles, so I haven't been hardened in the way that dealing with daily racism must cause.

I have to agree with you on this.. what we need to do is establish a new framework for understanding the causes associated with racism and for responding to them..we need to affirm that IF we go down.. we go down Together

I have to say though.. I don’t think SEU was being negative towards her people..i think that she just words things differently than some of us do… there’s nothing wrong with that at all.. people need to ask more questions before jumping @ folks… there’s no way to develop understanding without seeking clarity
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

seu2002

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Re: The Racism Issue
« Reply #89 on: April 22, 2005, 01:28:03 PM »
I just don't think fortitude belongs to one group. I am aware that I didn't face those obstacles, so I haven't been hardened in the way that dealing with daily racism must cause.

I have to agree with you on this.. what we need to do is establish a new framework for understanding the causes associated with racism and for responding to them..we need to affirm that IF we go down.. we go down Together

I have to say though.. I don’t think SEU was being negative towards her people..i think that she just words things differently than some of us do… there’s nothing wrong with that at all.. people need to ask more questions before jumping @ folks… there’s no way to develop understanding without seeking clarity


that's what i'm talking about.  if you don't understand what's being said, ask for clarification on the thread or a PM before jumping someone's back.  that's not very hard to do.  damn, even regal and i did better than that.  and now we're best friends, right regal?   ;)