Law School Discussion

Legitimate Cooley question

dave303

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Re: Legitimate Cooley question
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2005, 04:09:38 PM »
I think its funny that cooley goodward doesn't have any lawyers from cooley. http://cooley.com/attorneys/attorneys.aspx

Re: Legitimate Cooley question
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2005, 09:28:46 AM »
I would just like to note that a 151 is not a bad LSAT score at all -- in fact, it is *perfectly* average.  Half the students taking the exam score below a 151. 

However, this does indicate that you have decent aptitude for the test, and can probably do even better. 

In the end, a Cooley degree may not be so bad, given that it will essentially be free, and not all programs will fit into your work schedule like this.  However, if you can attend a better program for free as well, that would be even better.  (If you're in SE Michigan, other programs will also probably be more convenient in terms of commute.)  If nothing else, a higher score will get you more aid money from Cooley -- and maybe you could arrange it such that it's a stipend rather than a tution waiver, since your work is willing to cover 10K in tuition anyway.

According to ABA roughly half the people that take the LSAT do not get accepted to a School.  So to be blunt that is a really crappy score.

To the OP, you are definetely selling yourself short especially with such an amazing GPA.

In addition, you are setting yourself up for an immense risk.  Do not assume because it is "Cooley" you will be able to coast through Law School.  Half the students do not make it to second year.

If you did not have the time to study for the LSAT what makes you think you will be able to put enough into Cooley that you will not be screwed by a bunch of gunners and a curve?

OP, IMHO you need yo re-evaluate your situation, and retake the LSAT, a 10 point plus increase will almost nullify your past score.

*sorry for being harsh, but with a higher LSAT score you would be an exceptional law school canidate*


Your post is wrong in so many ways I'm not even sure where to begin. 

First off, it's factually incorrect.  (I'm not even going to address spelling or grammar.)  There is a high attrition rate at Cooley, and it's something to consider, but it's certainly not half of the class during 1st year.  (I believe it's 1/3 or less.) 

More importantly, it really doesn't matter how many students get, or don't get into law school.  (The truth is that many candidates don't even bother to apply once they realize they won't get into top-tier schools.)  The only real way to gauge an LSAT score is against the other people who take it.  A 151 is smack dab in the middle of the percentile range.  In other words, it is PERFECTLY AVERAGE, as noted. In fact, being in the 50th percentile, the OP actually did better than 50% of testakers, so he's slightly above average. 

Now, do you need an even better score these days to get into a good law school?  Sure.  This is why I encourage the OP to study harder and retake it.  However, I think he should at least be aware that his first LSAT indicates decent aptitude, so that he's not unduly discouraged.  And the fact is that a 151, without much prep, is indeed a decent score, and indicates the potential to do even better. 

I tend to agree with some of your other points, although it should be noted that the OP's "risk" is actually relatively small, since he's not paying for anything.  And the OP will presumably only be competing against other PT students, who will also have other responsibilities.  However, as I've already noted, the OP probably would be better off at another PT program, for the reasons repeatedly stated on this thread. 

In other words, not all of your advice is bad, but it would be more effective if it didn't contain blatantly inaccurate statements.  (I probably wouldn't even bother to correct them if you weren't directly responding to my post.) 

Re: Legitimate Cooley question
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2005, 09:32:10 AM »
this is the reason no one will take the cooley JD seriously:

http://www.cooley.edu/rankings/overall2004.htm

cooley 24
Stanford 28


I do think this is probably one reason Cooley takes so much abuse.

On the other hand, I think there may actually be some students who buy into their rankings.

Re: Legitimate Cooley question
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2005, 09:40:02 AM »
Haha, I don't think so.

elemnopee

Re: Legitimate Cooley question
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2005, 10:09:18 AM »
Your post is wrong in so many ways I'm not even sure where to begin. 

First off, it's factually incorrect.  (I'm not even going to address spelling or grammar.)  There is a high attrition rate at Cooley, and it's something to consider, but it's certainly not half of the class during 1st year.  (I believe it's 1/3 or less.)

straight off of US NEWS 2006:
Attrition Rates for 2003-2004 Full- and Part-time Students
Percent of students discontinuing law school:
- First-year students: 47.9%
- Second-year students: 43.7%
- Third-year students: 7.6%

On other "not-so-nice" message boards that would constitute a PWN3D!

Looks to me like less than 25 percent ever make it to graduation.

More importantly, it really doesn't matter how many students get, or don't get into law school.  (The truth is that many candidates don't even bother to apply once they realize they won't get into top-tier schools.)  The only real way to gauge an LSAT score is against the other people who take it.  A 151 is smack dab in the middle of the percentile range.  In other words, it is PERFECTLY AVERAGE, as noted. In fact, being in the 50th percentile, the OP actually did better than 50% of testakers, so he's slightly above average.

The only real way to gague an LSAT score is whether or not it is going to get you into the college or university that you want to go to.

jacy85

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Re: Legitimate Cooley question
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2005, 10:16:06 AM »
elemnopee, I definitely agree with your lsat thought.  What good is being average overall if you're coming in last where it matters?

I think you've been completely proven wrong here, Amanda.  Thanks for playing though.


Re: Legitimate Cooley question
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2005, 10:30:41 AM »
Haha, I don't think so.


I don't know -- why else would so many people go there?

jacy85

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Re: Legitimate Cooley question
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2005, 10:35:47 AM »
Why else so many would go to Cooley?  It's not cause of their funky rankings.

Sometimes it's because they're in a position similar to the OP.  For work, family, whatever reason, Cooley fits what they have to work with.

For the majority, however, I think it's likely because it's the best they can do.  Cooley gives them a chance (a false hope, IMO), take their money, and says "Sure, you can be a lawyer too!"  Then, half are cut due to grades.  They could have done decently, but close to 50% attrition and a harsh curve means that everybody can't make it.  Then, 2L is much the same thing.

Hell, let's not even talk grades.  A person with a sick child will get kicked out for missing a class.  ONE class.

It's a harsh system meant to play on people's hopes and dreams.  People bash it and call it a TTT.  I call it a cruel joke for most people.

Re: Legitimate Cooley question
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2005, 10:43:16 AM »
I think the key to Cooley is the weekend program.  I'm assuming you live in BH/St. Joe, and there are no PT progams one can attend in that area.  If you don't want to quit your job, you have no realistic choice, regardless of LSAT.

Without too much higher of an LSAT score, 100% tuition is pretty easily attainable - check the school website for the exact requirements.  I'd retake solely for that reason (assuming Cooley won't rescind the scholarship if you would score lower) - then you don't have the 2-year deal with your company.  Good luck!  Plenty of successsful attorneys come out of Cooley.

Re: Legitimate Cooley question
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2005, 10:44:18 AM »
Your post is wrong in so many ways I'm not even sure where to begin. 

First off, it's factually incorrect.  (I'm not even going to address spelling or grammar.)  There is a high attrition rate at Cooley, and it's something to consider, but it's certainly not half of the class during 1st year.  (I believe it's 1/3 or less.)

straight off of US NEWS 2006:
Attrition Rates for 2003-2004 Full- and Part-time Students
Percent of students discontinuing law school:
- First-year students: 47.9%
- Second-year students: 43.7%
- Third-year students: 7.6%

On other "not-so-nice" message boards that would constitute a PWN3D!

Looks to me like less than 25 percent ever make it to graduation.


Got a link?  

Even according to the stated figures, your initial statement is incorrect.  Most students do in fact make it to 2nd year, though more may drop out afterwards.

PWN3D!   :D




More importantly, it really doesn't matter how many students get, or don't get into law school.  (The truth is that many candidates don't even bother to apply once they realize they won't get into top-tier schools.)  The only real way to gauge an LSAT score is against the other people who take it.  A 151 is smack dab in the middle of the percentile range.  In other words, it is PERFECTLY AVERAGE, as noted. In fact, being in the 50th percentile, the OP actually did better than 50% of testakers, so he's slightly above average.

The only real way to gague an LSAT score is whether or not it is going to get you into the college or university that you want to go to.


No, the only "real" way to "gauge" an LSAT score is in terms of how it compares to other people taking the test.  This is why they have percentiles, after all.

However, even if we operated under the principle you state, we don't really know where the OP wants to go.  If he wants to go to Cooley, it's a fine score.  If he wants to go to Yale, it's a crappy score. (A 165 would be as well).  In the absence of further information, we can't make any judgement on the score (under your standard).  All we can say is that it's statistically average.