Richard Perle admits Iraq has been a failure

[onehandedreader]

Even some ultra-conservatives are starting to come around. 

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0526-11.htm

[jgruber]

Sounds like maybe his conscience started bothering him.

[schoomp]

I think a lot of people see Iraq as a failure.  The number would probably go up if the American media actually showed fallen soldiers arriving home to be buried.

[jgruber]

Yup.  Remember the stink that was raised when they let the pictures of flag draped coffins?  That was hypocritical to me.  What could be more disrespectful of the people who gave their lives for their country than to hide them?

I think we should go back to the old days when they published casualty lists.  The dead have the right to be recognized for their sacrifice and the public has a right to see the cost of their public policies.

[schoomp]

I was watching some show and they were reporting on a guy in california that put crosses up for everyone killed.  I think he did this every weekend (put them up, take them down).  Although he was doing it for anti-war protest reasons, it affected eveyrone that saw it (according to the report).  Whether people were for the war or against it, they all were in tears when they saw it.  I don't know that it changed anyones opinion, but it was moving.

A few months ago, I saw a protest downtown and many of the people were carrying crosses with soldier's names on it.  It was heart breaking to see the number of them as the people just kept walkign and walking.

[marista]

Last night I asked my dad how similar the Iraq thing was to Vietnam. He said we are not as entrenched there as we were in Vietnam.  I said, how about at the beginning, before it became this stalemate, quagmire deal?  And he thought about that and said he saw a lot of similarities, the main one being that in both cases the public kept urging politicians to get our troops out of there, and they did not.

That's kinda scary. I'm not saying Iraq is another Vietnam--yet.  But is history just going to repeat itself 30-40 years after Vietnam? That war is a clear memory for anyone maybe 45 or older (ie our president and most of Congress) but did they really learn from what happened there? I feel like if Bush is re-elected we could wind up in a Vietnam-type situation over there, and I don't need to tell you all why that would be really bad.

[jgruber]

I don't think remembering the dead is either pro or anti war  (pro or anti peace either)  Each person will take away their own thoughts after seeing reminders of the destruction of war.

If you're pro-war, then it reminds you how far people will go to fight for what they believe in.

If you're pro-peace, then it reminds you of the horrible cost of war.


Either way we owe it to those who have died to remember them.

Which reminds me of something.  Have you ever noticed that so called anti-war films are usually the ones that most realistic?

I was watching some show and they were reporting on a guy in california that put crosses up for everyone killed.  I think he did this every weekend (put them up, take them down).  Although he was doing it for anti-war protest reasons, it affected eveyrone that saw it (according to the report).  Whether people were for the war or against it, they all were in tears when they saw it.  I don't know that it changed anyones opinion, but it was moving.

A few months ago, I saw a protest downtown and many of the people were carrying crosses with soldier's names on it.  It was heart breaking to see the number of them as the people just kept walkign and walking.

[jgruber]

I turned 18 shortly after the peace accord was signed with Vietnam so I had limited personal experience with Vietnam, but I've studied it since then.

What worries me the most about Iraq becoming another Vietnam is the striking similarity of the rhetoric.  Bringing freedom and democracy to _______   We cannot disengage without damaging our credibility.

And the one I'm waiting to hear next will be "We have to stay.  Otherwise our trooops would have died in vain"  They used that one almost from the start.

Last night I asked my dad how similar the Iraq thing was to Vietnam. He said we are not as entrenched there as we were in Vietnam.  I said, how about at the beginning, before it became this stalemate, quagmire deal?  And he thought about that and said he saw a lot of similarities, the main one being that in both cases the public kept urging politicians to get our troops out of there, and they did not.

That's kinda scary. I'm not saying Iraq is another Vietnam--yet.  But is history just going to repeat itself 30-40 years after Vietnam? That war is a clear memory for anyone maybe 45 or older (ie our president and most of Congress) but did they really learn from what happened there? I feel like if Bush is re-elected we could wind up in a Vietnam-type situation over there, and I don't need to tell you all why that would be really bad.