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Author Topic: Sovereignty? We don't need no stinking sovereignty.  (Read 1946 times)

jgruber

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Sovereignty? We don't need no stinking sovereignty.
« on: May 25, 2004, 09:22:22 AM »
I give up.  What exactly will the US hand over to Iraq on June 30th?  What does the administration mean when it uses the term sovereignty?

marista

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Re: Sovereignty? We don't need no stinking sovereignty.
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2004, 09:46:47 AM »
Self-government, I guess. Iraq run by Iraqis. But the US doesn't seem to trust them enough to actually let them run the country all by themselves.

I really liked when Bush said they was going to implement "orderly and accurate national elections" in Iraq. All I could think was, will they be as orderly and accurate as the 2000 Florida Festival of the Hanging Chads?

jgruber

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Re: Sovereignty? We don't need no stinking sovereignty.
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2004, 09:50:06 AM »
But is it self-government when a foreign country has a large military presence and is telling you what form your government takes?  Didn't Bush spell out the form of the Iraq government last night?

marista

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Re: Sovereignty? We don't need no stinking sovereignty.
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2004, 09:55:20 AM »
I agree--there's an element of sovereignty to choosing your form of government as well, not just to running it. I mean, what if England had said to the American colonies "okay, you can be your own separate country. You'll have your own king, your own parliament, your own military, and so forth. Here's your constitution, here are your laws, go follow this plan and you'll be good."  I do not think that would have worked out quite the same.  It has to be the people's decision, they can't just be told which form of government is best for them.

jgruber

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Re: Sovereignty? We don't need no stinking sovereignty.
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2004, 09:57:00 AM »
Yup.  So can you have sovereignty when you do not control the military force in your country, do not control the form of government?

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: Sovereignty? We don't need no stinking sovereignty.
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2004, 01:19:49 PM »
Self-government, I guess. Iraq run by Iraqis. But the US doesn't seem to trust them enough to actually let them run the country all by themselves.

I really liked when Bush said they was going to implement "orderly and accurate national elections" in Iraq. All I could think was, will they be as orderly and accurate as the 2000 Florida Festival of the Hanging Chads?

good one
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onehandedreader

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Re: Sovereignty? We don't need no stinking sovereignty.
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2004, 06:42:17 PM »
the plan from the beginning, and now set forth by the new UN resolution we're trying to get passed, gives the new iraqi government (provided Brahimi can ever get one together) a largely symbolic role.  they won't be in charge of security, they won't be able to make laws, they won't be running the country, they can declare national holidays and that's about it.  and there's no timetable for the removal of our troops.  that's not sovereignty, and it's not control, it's a facade. 
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schoomp

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Re: Sovereignty? We don't need no stinking sovereignty.
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2004, 07:30:40 PM »
It is an election year.  The polling is showing Bush on a decline.  I think he is hoping that enough dumb people that voted for him will think we are actually turning over power.  Kinda like the tax "relief" checks that everyone got in the mail a few years ago.  It wasn't until tax time in April that *some* people wondered why their returns were so small compared with the last year.  Even then, a lot of people didn't figure out that the "relief" checks were actually advances on tax returns you would have gotten the next spring anyway.